r/marvelstudios • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 Ant-Man • 3d ago

Other Kevin Feige shares new details on 'Avengers: Doomsday' at CinemaCon, confirms filming starts in a few days

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u/DonCola93 3d ago

With no build up. Nice. Welcome to the mess.

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u/Bobastic87 3d ago

Is it really that shocking that we see cracks within this franchise? This franchise has been going on for over a decade. I’d be more shocked if marvel was able to stay consistent for this long. Idk if we’ll ever see a franchise as huge as what marvel is now… or at least in a long time.

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u/labbla 3d ago

It's going to be a huge clumsy mess. Kind of interested to see whatever the fuck this turns out to be.

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u/SteveBob316 Weekly Wongers 3d ago

Many of us said the same thing about Civil War. Man, those were the days.

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u/CleanAspect6466 3d ago

I imagine it will be a way more messy version of Infinity War, a lot of characters in that movie were relegated to bit parts, but most of them get a scene or two to shine, I cannot imagine them pulling off the same level of balance with all the extra characters they have now

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u/Philander_Chase Vision 3d ago

Ahem. Of the 14 post-Endgame/Far from Home and pre-Doomsday films:

Black Widow introduces future Thunderbolts

Shang-Chi introduces Shang-Chi, who will be in Doomsday

Eternals introduces adamantium, which was a plot point in Brave New World and could also be one (albeit smaller) in Doomsday

No Way Home introduces the multiverse, which features in Doomsday

Multiverse of Madness introduces incursions, which was almost shown in the Marvels and most likely will at least be mentioned in Doomsday

Love and Thunder has Thor become a dad, which will for sure be seen in Doomsday since he’s in it

Wakanda Forever introduces Shuri as Black Panther as well as Namor, and they’ll both be in Doomsday

Quantumania has Ant-Man who will be in Doomsday

Guardians 3… ok I got nothing here

The Marvels has Photon go to the X-Men world that’ll appear in Doomsday

Deadpool & Wolverine introduces Gambit who will be in Doomsday

Brave New World introduces Joaquin Torres as Falcon, who will be in Doomsday

Thunderbolts introduces the Thunderbolts who will be in Doomsday

Fantastic Four introduces the Fantastic Four who will be in Doomsday

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u/KrytenKoro 3d ago edited 3d ago

Those aren't buildup. Those are toys in a box .

The first three phases didn't just introduce characters or concepts, they introduced plot lines uniting the characters and showing us what the villain was building towards. Nick fury was the string connecting that first group, and he pulled them together in that movie.

Play Kevin Bacon with this list. Which ones are linked by personal relationships?

Ant man, bucky, and Captain America, maybe?

Or Captain marvel, ms marvel, Elena, and Kate Bishop? Maybe shang chi and dr strange via captain marvel and Wong? Even those are pretty tenuous.

As for the villain - do we know what his basic goal is? We had an idea what it would be for thanos at this point, even just from snippets of the character.

EDIT: Here's an Infinity War era relationship chart. For build up to work, we'd need something like this with all the new characters as strongly connected as the main characters of IW.

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u/Philander_Chase Vision 3d ago

Oh you’re right, Infinity Saga had much better build up and it’s definitely not just rose-colored glasses.

We’ve seen the characters unite so much in the Infinity Saga, we had 2.5 Avengers films before Infinity War, and Ragnarok was kind of a team-up too. We haven’t had that level, nor do we need it again, but we have had some of it. And that works for this saga.

We saw little clips of Thanos at the end of Avengers 1 & 2, the first not even related to the infinity stones. We also got a scene in Guardians 1, and his ship appearing in Ragnarok but that was to explicitly tease Infinity War, so I don’t even count that as different bc we may get a similar thing in Fantastic Four. So yeah, we barely saw anything of Thanos pre-Infinity War. Why you’re saying that’s so much different than not seeing Doom at all confuses me. It’s a LITTLE different, but basically it’s not.

Nick Fury was the string for Phase 1 only.

Avengers 1 was the first crossover, not Infinity War. In Avengers 1 they all met for the first time. In Infinity War, different people met as well: Doctor Strange and the Guardians all met the Avengers, everyone met the people of Wakanda and Captain Marvel. This won’t be hugely different in that way either.

The only thing I’ll concede is that we don’t know Doom’s goal, but honestly if we didn’t know Thanos’ goal the fan reaction to Infinity War would’ve been the same.

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u/KrytenKoro 3d ago edited 3d ago

Oh you’re right, Infinity Saga had much better build up and it’s definitely not just rose-colored glasses.

Correct.

The main groups (Sorcerers, Avengers, Guardians, Wakandans) were each composed of people who knew the others within their own group and had close working relationships with them. The Avengers and Wakandans also had connections, so we essentially just needed to introduce the Sorcerers, Avengers, and Guardians to each other. It wasn't highlighted in the film, but Ragnarok showed us that Strange was familiar with at least Thor and was keeping an eye on cosmic events in his area, so he had a good reason to get involved.

We saw little clips of Thanos at the end of Avengers 1 & 2, the first not even related to the infinity stones

The first time we saw Thanos, we knew for absolute certain that he was after the Tesseract. The second, we knew for absolute certain he was after the Power Stone. We knew very early on that Thanos was trying to collect these powerful objects, and in Guardians of the Galaxy, they explain what exactly the objects are and what they're for.

Why you’re saying that’s so much different than not seeing Doom at all confuses me. It’s a LITTLE different, but basically it’s not.

Here's the question I asked:

do we know what his basic goal is?

Based solely on the movies, not any knowledge of the comic storylines, do you know what Doom's deal is or what his goal is?

Nick Fury was the string for Phase 1 only.

Correct.

In Avengers 1 they all met for the first time.

Incorrect. Iron Man already had Tony connect with Coulson and Nick Fury, and specifically sets up the idea of collecting powered individuals. Hulk had Tony interacting with Hulk's story, showing he was on SHIELD's radar. Captain America had Steve connect with Nick Fury. Thor had Thor connect with Hawkeye and Nick Fury, and also gave us insight on Loki. Iron Man 2 had Tony also meet Natasha.

So before we had Avengers, all of these characters had connections to the Nick Fury, and we were told that Nick wanted to collect them into a team. And then we saw him do that in Avengers. That's buildup and payoff. We had a villain who we were already familiar with, and knew what his basic goal was (to conquer Earth and prove his worth to Odin).

In Avengers, the entire group assembles as a whole for the first time. But the previous movies had already shown them connecting and giving us a reason for them to team up in a crossover movie.

EDIT: Correction. Thor the Dark World revealed that the Tesseract was the Space Stone and the Aether was the an Infinity Stone, implying that that's why Thanos sought the Tesseract, and specifies that powerhungry individuals would want all six. So we had a firm grasp of Thanos's end goal as early as Thor 2.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

who says its no build up? still have FF and TB plus it could built from things already released now too

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u/dpittnet 3d ago

No build up is needed