Putting someone in a psychiatric ward is not criminalizing suicide. It's a precaution to save lives. What do you think he would do if they just immediately released him? I've been committed by the police. Sucks and feels like a punishment at the time, but it saved my life and was 1000x better than a jail cell.
I mean, it was either that or I was going to jail for underage drinking and causing a scene. They were very kind to me there, I just don't handle feeling trapped well. Most people having a psychotic break like that are glad to have survived once they get help. Also, keep in mind that suicide doesn't only affect the person doing it.
That. It’s a snippet in time where the deprivation of liberty can be the liberating thing someone needs. Have the need of control over your life and decision-making taken away and be cared for without any expectations put on you.
Probably not the best idea to have someone who suicidal let’s say drive a vehicle on the highway if you pose a threat to society or yourself you will be locked away lol
I’m meaning that the treatment you receive at psych facilities shouldn’t feel punitive. Mine was basically jail and the staff members uncaring even though I was as easy of a patient as it gets. Even tho I checked my own self in.
I'm sorry that happened, it's very facility dependent.
I obviously don't know the workers who cared for you but I will say psych is a very dangerous profession and many facilities just flat out don't support their staff. They get beat up over and over again and there is effectively zero recourse. This leads to extreme burnout and honestly some PTSD and distrust.
With that being said, it's not an excuse. Reading things like this makes me truly appreciate how good of a program my local hospitals have.
The crazy thing that stood out was so many staff members being way more mentally unhealthy than we were. Like not far away from a full breakdown themselves. I understand that’s why they treated us like that. I know administration is usually always to blame. How are they supposed to help people in that state?
I was bakered for ideation without intention. I missed my scheduled therapy the next day because I got there after doctors went home. Incredibly upsetting malpractice.
I was treated like a criminal (my record is spotless). It was one of the worst nights of my life and they did nothing to improve my mental health, just let me go the next day. It was seriously awful and only induced a ton more ideation and made me feel like I was being punished horribly for being sad. That’s not the kind of place I’d want to go for help on the brink. Having been there before now I know in the heat of the moment I’d probably rather jump than go back. Which is CRAZY. It really needs to change. I went from being hopeful to being completely terrified of mental health systems.
Yeah I always said I’d kill myself before I got sent back to one of those places which is really fucked up. Thank goodness I got better, thank you ketamine therapy
Depends on the place! If you were on my unit we likely would have had fun. I used to run daily YouTube music video groups, hallway bowling, origami, optical illusions, and a bunch more for my recreation groups and I always made an effort to make being at the hospital better for people. I’d do my best to provide any printable activities I could. Of course I did therapies and stuff too, but the last thing I wanted was for people to feel worse for seeking help. My hospital was pretty good at not admitting people for ideation only and generally would set people up with outpatient resources if they weren’t an immediate risk to themselves.
I had to sleep in my clothes (wasn’t given a change) and couldn’t brush my teeth. I was in a small box (a clear prison cell basically) with nothing but a hard couch for over five hours crying my eyes out. Then when I was finally moved to the bigger box with other women the only recreation was a single TV. And I couldn’t sleep on my hard cot through it because the 15 minute rounds they do feel like 5 minutes when you’re trying to sleep, so I was awake all night. The dude taking my financial information to figure out how much they could charge me for my unwilling incarceration had the gall to complain about his kidney stones and how hard he had it. The case manager told me people not in crisis get bakered all the time. And the entire time I was FUMING because I was being treated like I was crazy and dangerous when I was just trying to tell my psychiatrist I needed a change in my meds because I felt like shit. I was so upset I couldn’t eat the entire night and next day.
I will never work with another psychiatrist or any mental health professional who cannot tell me the difference between ideation and intention. I cry every time I talk about this. My psychiatrist was a gaslighting bitch and I have completely lost respect for the profession as a result. If I hadn’t met amazing therapists prior I probably wouldn’t seek help again. People are right to be scared of getting mental help.
Maybe, in my personal experience they do but I said some probably are ok because I’ve heard many good experiences but it could be possible it’s just America is fucked up and it’s better elsewhere
Mental health is the lowest thing on American health care. They take you to a room and take all your belongings and leave you alone with your thoughts until the doctor comes around maybe 5 hours later. They will not let you leave if they feel you will harm yourself. That's just the screening process.
I've been committed twice after either someone calling for me or me calling to get help. Both times, I immediately attempted again. The first time was when I was a kid and realized how much better it was away from home, so I tried once I got back. The second time as an adult where they just kinda stuck me in a room for 12 hours then called me a taxi home.
Why shouldn't his life be his own choice though? Like I totally commend saving him to give him a chance to reconsider, but if he chooses to try again, why stop him?
Edit: I didn't stop to think about the fact that he's doing it in public, that could definitely be a reason to stop him
Nothing inhumane about letting people have agency over when their own lives end. Again, I commend saving him, cause these decisions are often made rashly and in haste after a particularly bad day/event. But after his chance to reconsider, why should the government have the authority to say, no you can't die right now?
Well yeah kind of humanity, but because humans love capitalism and cheap workers. Many countries dont care about their people when they get sick, disabled or something that make them unable to work, thats not humanity.
I've tried to commit suicide quite a few times. If he was that serious, he would have just done it and not made a whole scene. This was a cry for help, and he was most likely having some sort of mental breakdown. I'd say most people will be glad to have not killed themselves once they calm down. If someone really wants to kill themselves, they won't give anyone the chance to stop them.
I agree suicide should be legal with a doctor. But no, people shouldn't be allowed to splat themselves and traumatized everyone who sees it.
The hazmat people that have to scrape someone's remains off the road etc... IDK maybe they don't mind cuz they get paid but there are externalities to not wearing a seat belt and suicide in public spaces so you get my point
With the current legal situation, there is no way to take your own life without traumatizing someone else. At the very least the person that finds you will suffer from that experience. Afaik there is like one country in the world that has legalized assisted suicide. That is the only way to do it without "being a dick about it".
No. There a psych wards specifically for criminals but the vast majority are not meant as a punishment. They are meant to get people the care they previously were not getting so they can rehabilitate and live a healthy life
That depends on where they go and what insurance they have. It is not a sure thing. Furthermore many people would make the ethical argument that the medical bills were worth saving the persons life
It really doesn't depend on any of that for most people. Look into the cost of getting sent to one of these wards, insurance or not you will be buried alive under that debt if you're not a millionaire. Also, love the lip service of "I saved your life!" just to turn around and leave people in a worse financial situation than they started in, which is in a lot of cases the very reason they were suicidal in the first place.
Idk man seeing someone commit suicide right in front of you can have serious psychological implications I personally think it’s totally fine to lock up people who are mentally unwell if they pose a threat to anyone and themselves
Its not criminalisation of suicide. Do you plan on just releasing them so they can do it again? That's a terrible idea. The whole point of the psych ward is so that they can be treated and helped then released once they are no longer a suicide risk.
Nah, lots of suicide attempts are the results of pressure built up in the moment and people getting all worked up into a panic or despair over things. If I have to be held for a couple days, but as a result I'm alive when I might not otherwise be, I'll take that deal. Most people would.
Criminalisation of suicide is literally so stuff like this can happen. If it wasn't illegal they wouldn't be allowed to touch him. Try thinking next time, it's quite fun.
Most of my friends who are suicidal (or the ones that were, rather) all look back on their time in a psych ward rather fondley. They all talk about how good it was to just not have to think about how they'd go about their day, and just focus on themselves and getting help.
Of course, each one recieved a different quality of care, cause they're online friends all around the world, but the ones that got help all have similar stories.
Dude the psych ward is fucking dope, what are you talking about? Walk around in rubber soled socks and paint pictures and relax in a world you aren’t responsible for, it’s like being a kid again. The shitty part is going back to the real world.
I worked in corrections for a year a while back. We often received baker acted (suicide/self harm risk) patients due to our psychiatric facilities being over capacity.
This is one of the many many reasons I couldn't stay for a career in the field.
Agreed, won’t be instant. But those tendencies can and do go away with mental health treatment, which can include any combination of talk therapy,
meds from qualified professionals, and several other proven methods.
This might be super unpopular, but I think if someone is at the point where they are going through the actions to kill themselves. Where their quality of life is so bad they can’t handle it.
They have a right to die.
But in a way that it won’t scar stone child or service worker
Let's say a person is on fire, your immediate concern is to put out the fire. Arguing against detaining someone into a properly maintained mental health facility with trained professionals until they are mental stable enough to go back into society, is like trying to treat someone for burns while still on fire.
You need to address the immediate danger. This IS the mental health treatment. Going to therapy once a week isn't going to help if he ends up on this ledge in a couple days.
People seem to have this negative connation with this scenario and think of it as a 'crazy house'. Its generally located at a hospital or adjacent building. You are given more frequent mental health treatment, from more doctors, who are more qualified and focused on the issues then general day-to-day counsellors.
I have no idea why someone would be opposed to this type of treatment, other than complete ignorance, and again, frankly I have no idea what point or stance you're trying to argue against with. I don't even think we disagree on anything.
Nope. Most medication for these type of situations takes weeks to take effect. People starting meds for psychological disorders are actually more at risk in this adjustment period initial period than before or after.
There is no such thing as an immediate solution. It needs to be accessed on a client by client basis to determine how to be approached, which is why they may be forced to stay until a plan is formulated. It also takes time to diagnos and determine and prescribe which meda are appropriate for the patient and often it takes sometimes a lengthy trial period of multiple meds to find which one works.
You should get out more. You want to look up what a 5150 is. And police will "take you into custody" and you will be held until released, then charged with resisting arrest. If you don't just get shot that is.
will be held until released, then charged with resisting arrest. If you don't just get shot that is.
I worked night security in college and "Baker Acted" probably a dozen people over the years. None of them were shot and only one was possibly held the full 72 hours (he probably wasn't, but he dropped out of school). Most were seen and released within the first day (generally the next morning).
There were some minor vandalism charges involved due to the situations that led to me calling the police in the first place, but none of them involved jail time and "resisting arrest" is a completely separate charge.
Yes they are, they just call it a 72 hour psychiatric hold here instead. Regardless if it's called an 'arrest' or not, you're locked up for days against your will and not allowed to leave. It's essentially the same as being convicted of a crime and being sentenced to jail for 3 days.
They’re not being prosecuted though. That’s a fairly reasonable measure to protect them from themself. I mean, why would you let them go free immediately after trying to kill themselves?
Uhm actually USA likes to give people mental health treatment so much that they even take completely sane people and tell them they have mental health issues. Then lock them up against their will in a mental ward and charge the shit out of their health insurance.
Honestly in some places "mental health treatment" isn't too far off from being imprisoned. Mostly thinking of some of the horrible conditions people who get sectioned in the UK have to deal with.
Generally there is a small charge. This is sort of a necessity as that is needed to force some kind of mental health evaluation and get them into the system.
Idk about others but - I work for a 3rd party ins- if someone is 5150 or mandated 72 hour psych hold/ or longer- it’s just covered. We don’t ask questions and I just approve it. Normally they waive the inpatient fee and ppl pay like their copay which is an office visit (15-50$)
In America, you would go to a hospital for 24-48 hours and be evaluated.
Some of these people are chronically mentally unwell and this helps them get back on the right track as far as getting back in treatment (that doesn’t make it any less difficult)
Other people go back to their lives but now are getting some type of routine psychiatric attention.
I worked in addiction recovery for many many years and some of our patients unfortunately started off in situations like this
Dependent on where you go. The highest bill I have ever seen in working inpatient at my hospital was $2000. It's all a sliding scale. If you can't afford it--you either get billed nothing or very little.
In UK we’d have him detained under mental health act (law that gives authorities the right to detain/arrest somebody and keep them involuntarily in custody for their own safety)
Doesn’t surprise/concern me to hear other countries might charge them with a misdemeanour/small crime to give them the right to detain the person and access to courts and services etc.
Every country has their own way of dealing with it but this isn’t really to be dealt with as a criminal matter.
It’s the same way in Mexico and the US. In cases handled correctly, the person doesn’t get sent to jail, they get a 72 hour psychiatric hold in a hospital. If they are still a risk to themselves, their physician can hold them there longer.
Basically. He'll be locked in a psych ward for maybe a week or two and then he'll be kicked out the door and none of his actual problems will be solved and he'll probably jump off another a bridge a month later. But at least the internet gets a feel good story out of this.
Its a mental issue/ addiction issue in every American country , that is, psich ward, medication, probe in the justice to know if he will keep a treatment. Social workers involved . A misdemeanor.
Psychiatric hold. The police can do that for a short time until they're convinced that you're ok. Let someone walk away from a suicide attempt without resolving the underlying problems, they'll just try again and the officer risked his life for nothing.
Understand that a psychiatric hold isn't jail. They're just holding you until they know you're safe to release.
Actually there's a standard procedure for these types of situations.
First they have to make sure his body is okay and he's not on any dangerous drugs that could harm him, then they take his information to contact the family, and then they took him outside and shot him in the head because suicide is illegal.
They’ll get placed on an M1 mental health hold by the PD, then taken to the hospital to be cleared for placement in an inpatient facility by a therapist and doctor.
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u/Canyobeatit 1d ago
So what happens to the guy now? Prison or something?