Twin study suggests rationality and intelligence share the same genetic roots - the study suggests that being irrational, or making illogical choices, might simply be another way of measuring lower intelligence.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/twin-study-suggests-rationality-and-intelligence-share-the-same-genetic-roots/

[u/LordFondleJoy]

So instead of saying "He's an idiot" you could say "He's irrational" and it would basically indicate the same issue? Good to know.

[u/Limemill → u/[deleted]]

How? I thought it actually draws parallels between IQ and rationality, whereas in your case someone who clearly has a high IQ acts irrationally, so it seems to contradict this study. But also, having lived in a well-known university town, I also had plenty of similar experiences: I’ve seen lots of PhDs and postdocs who were absolutely lost in life outside of academia. Making strange choices, etc. I suspect neurodivergence plays a big part in it

[u/snailbully → u/Limemill]

In special education kids are generally made eligible for services on one of two tests: academic impact (do they perform worse in school than their cognitive testing suggests they should) or a pattern of strengths and weaknesses.

Some people on the spectrum have special talents like photographic memories or innate math calculation skills while also experiencing a severely disabling lack of skills in other areas. It's the "absentminded professor" phenomenon. It's why Ben Carson could be one of the most masterful surgeons in the world and also a right-wing wackadoo who believes some in seriously lunatic stuff

[u/Rinas-the-name → u/snailbully]

One of my husband’s friends is an aerospace engineer and one of the most air headed people I’ve ever met. He would wait until nearly everyone left because he could never find his car. He once rode his bike through the same exact puddle 3-4 times - going back to change clothes only to space out and get wet again (as an adult, biking to work). When trying to make a recipe he dumped every ingredient into one pan and then tried to seperate out the things he wasn’t supposed to have added yet.

He’s incredibly intelligent when it comes to mathematics and not much else.

[u/Madmanmangomenace → u/Rinas-the-name]

You can be so lost in thought that doing anything is dangerous. I really tried to avoid any serious thoughts when driving, because it's caused accidents before.

[u/Rinas-the-name → u/Madmanmangomenace]

I’m a deep thinker too, but in more creative ways. My autopilot works great… until it doesn’t. Definitely not while driving, using sharp objects, cooking/using fire. I have ADHD, so wrangling my brain into submission is hard. I really would rather spend all my focus on imagining scenarios that are unlikely, and solving problems in ways that would never actually be tried (because of greed).

If I was a multi billionaire I’d build a city for those who think big, but need adult supervision to do so. No driving, no cooking, focus on solving the world’s problems in new ways. Both experts and amateurs (because people who don’t know better sometime come up with good ideas that a pro never would). Then fund prototypes and trial runs of the best ideas.

I can dream.

[u/Madmanmangomenace → u/Rinas-the-name]

That's a pretty neat idea. I've long had the idea for a fleet of professional drivers bc everyone seems to do it so badly...

[u/ynwestrope → u/Madmanmangomenace]

Unfortunately, a lot of professional drivers are also not very good....

[u/Rinas-the-name → u/Madmanmangomenace]

Maybe we should make a modern version of street cars. Use an AI and a few people to coordinate stops and pickups. If no one drives crashes are unlikely. Optimize traffic patterns for different shifts and school times. Probably stagger when people start and get off work to minimize rush hour congestion. Possibly stagger days off too. Work two days, a day off, work two days, two days off. That way necessary businesses aren’t closed when people have time off. Parents could choose the best school schedule for their children that allows them solid time with them. More employment opportunities, better life work balance.

I always thought there should be high quality cafeteria style meals offered in several places in town (based on size of population). Some people are really good at and enjoy cooking large meals, If communities ate together regularly loneliness would be far less of an issue. I honestly think if people spent more time around those who were different there’d be less racism and bigotry - it’s hard to other people you see regularly.

I can imagine a dozen ways to improve life.

[u/sentence-interruptio → u/Rinas-the-name]

that's a bit surprising because I'd think being good at mathematics would involve spatial intelligence so he should be able to find his car?

[u/Rinas-the-name → u/sentence-interruptio]

That would require thinking about the here and now. He seems to spend most of his time looking like he’s working on some difficult theoretical problem. He definitely works on some very advanced mathematics. Matching socks and where his car is are just not important enough to pay attention to. Very absent minded professor.

[u/Limemill → u/snailbully]

I agree. But also in general, rationality is the ability to look past one’s cognitive biases, which is emotional in nature. Emotions come first and intelligence tries to rationalize them away later. So, in the case of high-IQ individuals what I tend to observe more often than not is much more sophisticated justifications of pre-existing emotional biases, not a lack of said biases. The ability to challenge one’s identity with its emotional reactions, which can be soul-shattering and utterly depressing, is not something I’d attribute to intelligence. It’s a different skill / value altogether, it seems

[u/das_war_ein_Befehl → u/Limemill]

IMO I think you don’t need to be particularly intelligent to have a PhD, just have a work ethic and strong memory. A lot of knowledge is just from memorization and experience, and doesn’t require a particularly sharp intellect.

[u/LeMooseChocolat → u/Limemill]

Well it depends what your goal is, rationality is not a fixed outcome, you can be rational in different ways in the same situation with different goals or info.

[u/DTFH_ → u/Limemill]

I’ve seen lots of PhDs and postdocs who were absolutely lost in life outside of academia.

I think what explains what you're describing is simple opportunity cost playing out in someone's personal development; I'm not the slightest bit surprised someone who went to school for ~15-20 years has poorly developed areas in their life due to spending ~15 hours a week for the last few decades working on academics and not addressing interpersonal matters, maladaptive behaviors or beliefs, etc, etc.

[u/Limemill → u/DTFH_]

Could also be the opposite. Developmental issues and certain personality disorders can push high-IQ people into activities and careers with fewer social interactions starting as early as primary school

[u/DTFH_ → u/Limemill]

Developmental issues and certain personality disorders can push high-IQ people into activities and careers with fewer social interactions starting as early as primary school

See but even the presence of a Developmental or Personality Dx does not explain the behaviors; you can have two people with BDP/Bi-polar/AuDHD and those who have done the internal work to understand how BDP/Bi-polar/AuDHD plays out in their life are distinct from those with BDP/Bi-polar/AuDHD who do not understand nor have observed how their BDP/Bi-polar/AuDHD impacts their life and the ways it expresses itself. Someone with Clinical Anxiety is distinct and different from someone who no longer fit the criteria for Clinical Anxiety, but both started from the same place and experienced the same clinical disorder.