Twin study suggests rationality and intelligence share the same genetic roots - the study suggests that being irrational, or making illogical choices, might simply be another way of measuring lower intelligence.

[u/mvea]

https://www.psypost.org/twin-study-suggests-rationality-and-intelligence-share-the-same-genetic-roots/

[u/LordFondleJoy]

So instead of saying "He's an idiot" you could say "He's irrational" and it would basically indicate the same issue? Good to know.

[u/Dmeechropher → u/[deleted]]

Academics are a better proxy for discipline, grit, and upbringing than for intelligence. There's a little more overlap between recall and intelligence (smart people often have strong ability to recall important facts). However, if you've ever met a dumb person with encyclopedic sports knowledge, you've encountered the counterexample.

Intelligent people are drawn towards knowledge because knowledge makes decisions more efficient and effective. There are many other reasons to be drawn towards knowledge, and many intelligent people don't feel academic knowledge is vital to their specific success.

[u/steviebowillie65 → u/Dmeechropher]

As a highly educated person I will tell you I have met many similarly educated idiots and many brilliant uneducated persons. And I take exception to the notion that recalling facts is intelligence. Recalling facts is memory. Synergizing the recalled facts into a logical conclusion or in a new and insightful way is true intelligence. Memorizing atomic structure (which anyone with a science degree has done) compares in comparison to genius who discovered that these structures exist. My stepfather is a highly educated attorney with literally, a photographic memory however he doesn’t have an intellectual bone in his body. And can’t argue with him because he can quote so many facts (even fake facts).

[u/Dmeechropher → u/steviebowillie65]

I believe what I said is that intelligence and recall are often coincident.

I was specifically trying to indicate that very smart people are generally good at discerning the critical pieces of information which they may need to recall or rederive, and therefore, better at recalling them.

This, then, looks to outside observers as though recall and intelligence are the same thing. A smart person appears to remember everything, because they consistently remember everything they need to solve the problem.

I don't think there's any issue arguing with someone who's dumb but has great recall. People who aren't smart are bad at building testable hypotheses and predictive models. If someone tries to swamp you with facts, the easy answer is just to ask what principle they're using to divide spurious information and anecdote from systematic evidence. People with good recall usually waffle, dodge the question, or gish gallop you after this, so you can just do all the normal things for that sort of "discussion". The real problem with this kind of conversation, in my opinion, is that someone who abuses strong recall of anecdotes in a conversation is not trying to be correct, they're trying to be believed. That's not an intelligence issue so much as a motivational one.

As a highly educated person I will tell you I have met many similarly educated idiots and many brilliant uneducated persons.

Me too. You wouldn't believe some of the people I met during PhD, in both directions. The range was incredible. Some of the smartest people I know have little or no formal education. I totally agree that formal educational criteria are an imperfect proxy for intelligence.