New research estimates that the 34 largest Bitcoin mining operations in the United States consumed more electricity in 2022 than all of Los Angeles combined. 85% of the electricity came from fossil fuels and exposed 1.9 million Americans to more than 0.1 μg/m3 of additional PM2.5 pollution.

[u/shiruken]

https://doi.org/10.1038/s41467-025-58287-3

[u/Disig]

It amazes me how many people don't realize how much energy farming Bitcoin takes and how absolutely terrible for the environment it is. It's why I'm personally so against it.

[u/greiton → u/[deleted]]

you don't have armies because of money, you have armies because of ownership. if I break into your house, torture you, and steal you bitcoin wallets, who are you going to go to? the police is a domestic army. unless you have a mad max survival of the strongest fetish, at some point you require social army enforcement. also, even in mad max, the strongest guy is the one with the biggest army.

[u/grundar → u/[deleted]]

Fine, forget the military. If I want to facilitate a monetary transaction to someone in Sweden, I need their country's monetary system to interface with my country's monetary system. To ensure that requires an army of bankers and politicians.

The vast majority of whom work on providing services other than person-to-person transactions, and yet who in that share of their time manage to provide for literally 1,000x as many transactions for just 2x the energy as bitcoin.

It may have other laudable properties, but bitcoin is objectively energy inefficient.

[u/greiton → u/[deleted]]

so you want to commit piracy and international smuggling without being caught. just be honest, you want everyone to use it so you can do crimes freely.

[u/greiton → u/[deleted]]

paper trail only lasts as far as the tumblers and cleaners. some extremely large criminal transactions have been possible to reconstruct on the other side, but this has to do more with the extreme size and uniqueness of the transaction. drug trade, sex trade, and smuggling all use crypto for the reduced tracking requirements and tumbling/cleaning options.

[u/greiton → u/[deleted]]

what about this https://www.trmlabs.com/resources/blog/category-deep-dive-illicit-drug-sales-grew-and-expanded-outside-of-darknet-marketplaces-in-2024#:~:text=The%20use%20of%20crypto%20in%20vendor%20shop%20drug%20sales%20surged%20in%202024&text=In%202023%2C%20these%20addresses%20received,to%20over%20USD%20600%20million.

[u/Disig → u/[deleted]]

Those bankers and so on still exist in your system even if they're not bankers. You want to kill them and replace them with machines? Because that's not how the world works.

[u/Disig → u/[deleted]]

You're ignoring my point. Also no it is not more efficient.

34 largest Bitcoin mining operations in the United States consumed more electricity in 2022 than all of Los Angeles combined

So are you telling me everyone in Los Angeles is a banker? They specifically are a part of this "army" of people working on currency? Because no, they're not. It's NOT more efficient. It kills the planet faster and uses more energy then humans ever could.

Now for my point: those people still exist. They still cost energy. They still need jobs. They don't magically go away just because automation happens. Yes, they can find other jobs sure but the energy cost just goes up, not down. This efficiency you claim doesn't actually exist. Things will cost more energy, not less.

[u/Disig → u/[deleted]]

Did you not read the study linked on this very thread?

[u/Disig → u/[deleted]]

Counterpoint is, you're literally wrong. Like, that data is all there. I don't know what else to tell you.

[u/Disig → u/[deleted]]

Yes, it's still far more energy efficient and that "army" is useful for other things.

What are you say? Cull the army in favour of Bitcoin machines? In your example, the army still exists and takes up resources. They need it more than your digital coin.

People exist whether Bitcoin does or not. Bitcoin doesn't need to exist