r/SuicideWatch Sep 03 '19

New wiki on how to avoid accidentally encouraging suicide, and how to spot covert incitement

1.8k Upvotes

We've been seeing a worrying increase in pro-suicide content showing up here and, and also going unreported. This undermines our purpose here, so we wanted to highlight and clarify our guidelines about both direct and indirect incitement of suicide.

We've created a wiki that covers these issues. We hope this will be helpful to anyone who's wondering whether something's okay here and which responses to report. It explains in detail why any validation of suicidal intent, even an "innocent" message like "if you're 100% committed, I'll just wish you peace" is likely to increase people's pain, and why it's important to report even subtle pro-suicide comments. The full text of the wiki's current version is below, and it is maintained at /r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement.

We deeply appreciate everyone who gives responsive, empathetic, non-judgemental support to our OPs, and we particularly thank everyone who's already been reporting incitement in all forms.

Please report any post or comment that encourages suicide (or that breaks any of the other guidelines in the sidebar) to the moderators, either by clicking the "report" button or by sending us a modmail with a link. We deal with all guideline violations that are reported to us as soon as we can, but we can't read everything so community reports are essential. If you get a PM that breaks the guidelines, please report it both to the reddit sitewide admins and to us in modmail.

Thanks to all the great citizens of the community who help flag problem content and behaviour for us.


/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement


Summary

It's important to respect and understand people's experiences and emotions. It's never necessary, helpful, or kind to support suicidal intent. There are some common misconceptions (discussed below) about suicidal people and how to help them that can cause well-meaning people to inadvertently incite suicide. There are also people online who incite suicide on purpose, often while pretending to be sympathetic and helpful.

Validate Feelings and Experiences, Not Self-Destructive Intentions

We're here to offer support, not judgement. That means accepting, with the best understanding we can offer, whatever emotions people express. Suicidal people are suffering, and we're here to try to ease that by providing support and caring. The most reliable way we know to de-escalate someone at risk is to give them the experience of feeling understood. That means not judging whether they should be feeling the way they are, or telling them what to do or not do.

But there's an important line to draw here. There's a crucial difference between empathizing with feelings and responding non-judgmentally to suicidal thoughts, and in any way endorsing, encouraging, or validating suicidal intentions or hopeless beliefs. It's both possible and important to convey understanding and compassion for someone's suicidal thoughts without putting your finger on the scale of their decision.

Anything that condones suicide, even passively, encourages suicide. It isn't supportive and does not help. It also violates reddit's sitewide rules as well as our guidelines. Explicitly inciting suicide online is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions.

Do not treat any OP's post as meaning that will definitely die by suicide and can't change their minds or be helped. Anyone who's able to read the comments here still has a chance to choose whether or not to try to keep living, even if they've also been experiencing intense thoughts of suicide, made a suicide plan, or started carrying it out.

In the most useful empirical model we have, the desire to die by suicide primarily comes from two interpersonal factors; alienation and a sense of being a burden or having nothing to offer. These factors usually lead to a profound feeling of being unwelcome in the world.

So, any acceptance or reinforcement of suicidal intent, even something "innocent" like "I hope you find peace", is actually a form of covert shunning that validates a person's sense that they're unwelcome in the world. It will usually add to their pain even if kindly meant and gently worded.

How to Avoid Validating Suicidal Intent

Keep the following in mind when offering support to anyone at risk for suicide.

  • People who say they don't want help usually can feel better if they get support that doesn't invalidate their emotions. Unfortunately, many popular "good" responses are actually counterproductive. In particular, many friends and family tend to rely exclusively on trying to convince the suicidal person that "it's not so bad", and this is usually experienced as "I don't understand what you're going through and I'm not going to try". People who've had "help" that made them feel worse don't want any more of the same. It doesn't mean that someone who actually knows how to be supportive can't give them any comfort.

  • Most people who are suicidal want to end their pain, not their lives. It's almost never true that death is the only way to end these people's suffering. Of course there are exceptional situations, and we certainly acknowledge that, for some people, the right help can be difficult to find. But preventing someone's suicide doesn't mean prolonging their suffering if we do it by giving them real comfort and understanding.

  • An unfixable problem doesn't mean that a good life will never be possible. We don't have to fix or change anything to help someone feel better. It's important to keep in mind that the correlation between our outer circumstances and our inner experience is weaker and less direct than commonly assumed. For every kind of difficult life situation, you will find some people who lapse into suicidal despair, and others who cope amazingly well, and a whole spectrum in between. A key difference is how much inner resilience the person has at the time. This can depend on many personal and situational factors. But when there's not enough, interpersonal support can both compensate for its absence and help rebuild it. We go into more depth on the "it gets better" issue in this PSA Post which is always linked from our sidebar (community info on mobile) guidelines.

  • There are always more choices than brutally forcing someone to stay alive or passively letting them end their lives.

To avoid accidentally breaking the anti-incitement rule, don't say or try to imply that acting on suicidal thoughts is a good idea, or that someone can't turn back or is already dead. Do whatever you can to help them feel cared for and welcome, at least in this little corner of the world. Our talking tips offer more detailed guidance.

Look Out for Deliberate Incitement. It May Come in Disguise.

Often comments that subtly encourage suicidal intent actually come from suicide fetishists and voyeurs (unfortunately this is a real and disturbing phenomenon). People like this are out there and the anonymous nature of reddit makes us particularly attractive to them.

They will typically try to scratch their psychological "itch" by saying things that push people closer to the edge. They often do this by exploiting the myths that we debunked in the bullet points above. Specifically you might see people doing the following:

  • Encouraging the false belief that the only way suicidal people can end their pain is by dying. There are always more and better choices than "brutally forcing someone to stay alive" or helping (actively or passively) them to end their lives.

  • Creating an artificial and toxic sense of "solidarity" by linking their encouragement of suicide to empathy. They will represent themselves as the only one who really understand the suicidal person, while either directly or indirectly encouraging their self-loathing emotions and self-destructive impulses. Since most people in suicidal crisis are in desperate need to empathy and understanding, this is a particularly dangerous form of manipulation.

Many suicide inciters are adept at putting a benevolent spin on their activities while actually luring people away from sources of real help. A couple of key points to keep in mind:

  • Skilled suicide intervention -- peer or professional -- is based on empathic responsiveness to the person's feelings that reduces their suffering in the moment. Contrary to pop-culture myths, it does not involve persuasion ("Don't do it!"), cheerleading ("You've got this!") or meaningless false promises ("Trust me, it gets better!"), or invalidation ("Let me show you how things aren't as bad as you think!"). Anyone who leads others to expect these kinds of toxic responses, or any other response that prolongs their pain, from expert help may be covertly pro-suicide. (Of course, people sometimes do have bad experience when seeking mental-health treatment, and it's fine to vent about those, but processing our own disappointment and frustration is entirely different from trying to destroy someone else's hope of getting help.)

  • Choices made by competent responders are always informed by the understanding that breaching someone's trust is traumatic and must be avoided if possible. Any kind of involuntary intervention is an extremely unlikely outcome when someone consults a clinician or calls a hotline. (Confidentiality is addressed in more detail in our Hotlines FAQ post). The goal is always to provide all help with the client's full knowledge and informed consent. We know that no individual or system is perfect. Mistakes that lead to bad experiences do sometimes happen to vulnerable people, and we have enormous sympathy for them. But anyone who suggests that this is the norm might be trying to scare people away from the help they need.

Please let us know discreetly if you see anyone exhibiting these or similar behaviours. We don't recommend trying to engage with them directly.


r/SuicideWatch Sep 10 '21

Please remember that NO ACTIVISM of any kind is ever allowed here. No matter what day it is.

719 Upvotes

Activism, i.e. advocating or fundraising for social change or raising awareness of social issues (and suicide is, inescapably, a social issue) is absolutely against the rules here at all times.

Please understand that we're all for smart, strategic mental-health and suicide-prevention activism. It's essential to fight against stigma, misinformation, and discrimination, and to fight for research, treatment, accommodation, acceptance, and understanding. Most of us, one way or another, are mental-health activists IRL.

But activism just doesn't work in a dedicated support space that serves a vulnerable population. We used to allow it but the evidence that it was undermining our primary purpose became overwhelming. We do regret the need for this rule, but the need is inescapable.

Our population is all too well aware of the issues and causes that need support and largely not in a position to take action, so besides the fact that activism is often salt in our community's wounds, it's a waste of the activists' time.

tl;dr Any fundraising, awareness raising, petitions, calls for participation, or any post that's about any cause or issue (rather than a request for personal support) is not allowed here. Please report everything of the nature that you see.


r/SuicideWatch 6h ago

Being an ugly woman is exhausting, Id rather be dead

231 Upvotes

So many women at my work are beautiful. I’m generally neutral about my appearance. Even though I know I’m ugly, I’ve mostly come to accept it. But being around so many beautiful women is like being stabbed in the gut with a hot knife LOL. It’s like I’m literally the ugliest girl alive. It’s extremely exhausting

A lot of guys have been quite cruel to me about my appearance, even some guys I considered my friends. I remember in dance class in high school a guy tried to swap partners with his friend so that he could be partnered with my friend instead. Because I was too ugly. And they were fighting over it bro 😭. I remember being catcalled in college, but when I turned to look at the guys, they all laughed at how I looked.

I just wish I could be beautiful for one day, solely because of the way other people treat me. I wish I could wear the clothes I want to wear without being stared at in disgust. I’m so far behind in life.

Honestly suicide seems like an easy fix for this at this point. Being ugly is extremely exhausting 24/7 and the only time I can escape it is when I’m sleeping. I hope I don’t wake up tomorrow


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

My mom called me a whore today

53 Upvotes

While I'm not..I'm just 16 trying hard to bear all this


r/SuicideWatch 11h ago

i was raped

136 Upvotes

long story short, i was raped by my guy best friend when we hung out one time. we were sitting there talking and having fun. soon, that turned into him trying to kiss me and when i pulled away, he got on top of me and started touching me then that lead to him starting to rape me. this was last year when i was 14. i have been struggling a lot because of this. i’ve never really had the best mental health, but this makes it so much worse to try and deal with. i don’t know what to do with myself, i am disgusted at myself and how i couldn’t do anything to stop him. i want to kill myself


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

goodbye

24 Upvotes

i realized that there's no use in fighting. some people don't have a purpose in life and that's okay. i've accepted that i'm not wanted anywhere, so this is my cue to leave this cruel world. i'm jumping out of this building tonight. i apologize to my mother for not being strong enough, but my sould is tired and hurt. i firmly believe that the world will be better off without me. farewell everyone.


r/SuicideWatch 38m ago

Being autistic is a death sentence

Upvotes

I am autistic and life has no meaning for me.


r/SuicideWatch 14h ago

The boy who cried suicide

83 Upvotes

At what point does letting those close to you know you want to die become a "boy who cried wolf" situation?

Struggle for weeks avoiding any mention of needing help. Finally mention it to those who are close. They understand and placate. Nothing drastic is done.

Rinse and repeat.

The only difference is - I know that each time it gets closer. They think it's just more of the same. I know that one time it will have just barely inched enough.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

Suicide

14 Upvotes

I accidentally told my parents I attempted suicide when we were arguing and now I dint know how to face them. Luckily, right after that they went home and im in my dormitory. But what will happen if i see them again? Im afraid they’ll stay the way they’re and that makes me even depressed and kill myself but if they suddenly nice i dont like it either because its weird and i know it wont last long because thats how they are. Now im depressed and have suicide thoughts because there’s a lot in my life right now. That, final year project, start of semester.


r/SuicideWatch 13m ago

Why does no one care about ending my pain?

Upvotes

Why does no one seem to care that I’m in so much pain? Why does everyone expect me to continue living when I can barely function? Why does no one realize that my death will be the best thing for me?


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

my daughter :(

9 Upvotes

hi friends my husband and i got into a big argument yesterday and almost ended in separation. we’re starting couples therapy bc of it but i had nightmares all night of him leaving me and im having a terrible day. i can’t stop combing over everything and ive just decided to stand by and allow him to be who he needs because it’s the least painful option rn

he was unfaithful. i forgave him. stupidly. but i don’t mean that, because unregretfully my daughter came of it :(( she turned 1 on mar 26th :(. she’s my best friend and my whole world, but i can’t be w someone who needs things and other people when that hurts me so deeply, and i can’t be alone guys :( i can’t be alone. i cant split time w my daughter w him i need her all the time i stay at home w her she’s been my daily routine for a year :(( but i can’t keep doing this :(( i know being single and alone would be best but ill never trust anyone again after all the lies and i crave being loved yall :(. i just can’t.

i dont mean it truthfully but i keep thinking about if both my daughter and i could die together right now. if we could just live forever in my car driving around our favorite rich neighborhood looking at the cacti and mountains and mansions and clouds and the music and the calmness. i just need that forever. i cant leave her snd i would NEVER hurt her EVER but i cant do this :( please i just want to be gone and free from this life and responsibility im only 23 but its too much it’s not getting any easier this world is so fucked and corrupt and :(( please


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

It’s checkmate

9 Upvotes

I wonder if anyone sees what I could do at this point, cause I can't.

Grew up in an isolated family with a year of homeschooling, struggled to make friends because my only socialization was weird sisters, and had never been put in sports or interests. Spent my childhood killing time. By 19, I’ve had no friends, no memories, and no growth. I was socially invisible, missed school because of ADHD or OCD over schoolwork (I still got amazing grades though somehow), and retreated into daydreaming to give me dopamine.

Now I’m still rotting away on Reddit, and my daydreams feel hollow. I can’t even imagine normal situations and conversations for a 19 year old. I've never had a real friend or life, and I’ve missed my chance. It was over years ago. It feels like checkmate.

Cause I can’t stand existing as this personality. I can’t stand that these were truly my parents. That this truly was my childhood. I can’t stand seeing happy younger kids getting real shit. I want to forget all of this.


r/SuicideWatch 10h ago

i wish it was easier to kill myself.

28 Upvotes

title.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

Am I still suicidal if I’m so lazy that I don’t want to kill myself, and simply go about every day hoping someone or something does the job for me?

5 Upvotes

T


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

Gonna be free

Upvotes

Ngl I’ve backed out an embarrassing amount of times but this time feels different. I’m ready. Idek why I’m writing this ig just to say it. I know I need to write a note but i don’t have anything to say that’ll help or even matter . I am sorry for the pain I’ll cause but it’ll be better for everyone in the long run. I have a rope tied, hidden in my closet, I just have to wait until I have an hour or so by myself then I can be free. I’m excited tbh like i finally see a light at the end of the tunnel.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

Ik it sound weird but can someone please tell me why I shouldn’t kms right now

5 Upvotes

And please don’t say “ur loved ones” or stuff like that. I’m tired of living for other people. I just need someone who really has reason why I should keep doing this.i really mean it, so if u have something that would makes me wanna stay, please let me know. Bc I really don’t see the point.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

I know this is pathetic

7 Upvotes

But can you remind me that I matter? I’ve been isolated due to chronic illness for a while and I feel like I’m dirt just watching the world spin by


r/SuicideWatch 16h ago

I’m just walking around in town at 12:30 AM with a knife debating killing myself

79 Upvotes

I’m 25 and I have a girlfriend and a good job and good things happening to me and I want to harm myself badly. I crave injuring myself. I have so much sexual trauma I can’t breathe I can’t sleep and I have no voice I can’t tell anyone. I’ve smoked maybe 1 cigarette in my life and I’m going to walk to the store and get some in an attempt to calm down. I feel like so anxious like I’m being followed


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

It's... Getting Better??

Upvotes

So if you want some backstory, read my older posts.

I'm in a psych ward, changed my meds, did more serious therapy and other more specific things.

And i gotta Say... It's working, i'm getting happier and i have more motivation, it's really fucking weird because It's changing so fast.

The only problem Is that i'm scared, because everytime it got Better It only gave me Hope just to crush It and getting worse, idk...

Btw i'm "welcoming" other people getting here and basically making friends.

I Hope It ACTUALLY gets better


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

i feel lost

9 Upvotes

im not doing well. the only thing that's stopping me is thinking of a student at my school. his mother committed suicide when he was 3. he was 9 when i knew him and he would still hug his shadow teacher and cry for his mother on. a regular basis. i can't do that to my daughter. but i feel like i cant breathe. i left my home to follow my husband to a new country. im so lonely. and now we're going somehwhere else? i cant. i just want calm. i love her but i want calm .


r/SuicideWatch 49m ago

GOD IM GOING FUCKING CRAZY

Upvotes

IM GOING FUCKING CRAZY I FEEL LIKE IM GONNA HAVE AN EPISODE I WANNA SMASH MY HEAD THROUGH THE WALL AND SHREAD MYSELF UNTIL I CANT BLEED ANYMORE SOMEONE PLEASE FUCKING KILL ME I DONT CARE HOW ANYMORE JUST KILL ME BEFORE I DO IT MYSELF GOD FUCKING FUCK! IF GOD EXISTS HES A FUCKING BASTARD FOR PUTTING ME ON EARTH
(Im not religious but if all of this is my fault im gonna snap my fucking neck)


r/SuicideWatch 51m ago

Think I’m gone by tomorrow night. Surgery damage and just a ruined life.

Upvotes

Anyone around? I live alone so some company would be cool from anyone who understands.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

I'm done, I've picked a spot, I've picked a method, just gotta buy the helium and I'll be out

9 Upvotes

I can't do this anymore, I'm tired of being here, I'm in a country that hates me, I can't afford to live anymore, I'm over this I'm just so tired and no amount of sleep helps

Fucking toddlers, all of you, think you can just send your worthless little "help" line and feel good about yourselves.


r/SuicideWatch 9h ago

Bad at everything, not made to live

18 Upvotes

I don't know what it is about me exactly, but I just end failing things that are so within my ability to do. Again and again. It's so tiring. Jobs, relationships, friends, drinking, my health and weight. Nothing works. Nothing seems to wake me up.

I don't really enjoy anything that much either. So who knows why I keep going. I'm sitting thinking about how I'd end it now.

People will say that it's just depression talking, that I've got an overly negative view of myself. But I know. I'm the one that lives my life and deals with everything that I ruin and throw away.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

I have a new plan but it’s killing me

7 Upvotes

A few days ago I wrote that ”tomorrow” I’ll commit suicide by cutting an artery in my thigh (where the artery is located. However it hurt so bad doing it with a knife that I couldn’t do it. I’m left with a big red scar. But that’s irrelevant. But I’m so messed up an my life is a complete disaster. I have severe Body dismorphia in which I have to do surgery on my left ear. (My ear is making my face shape look bad.) I probably have had 13 surgeries the last 10 years. I’m now in $70k debt. The only thing that has kept me alive all these years is the hope for the next surgery. But now, I’ve come to realize it will never look like I want and for that I’m too ugly to be seen in public. That means I’m too ugly to deserve love. I also have VERY high expectations of myself. If I can’t be my absolute best person I don’t want anyone to have me, because they don’t deserve being with a person that isn’t there best self.

Now, I can’t keep this up. I don’t want to go to another country again. I’m exhausted. I have a new plan, and that is filling a plastic bag with Helium. I ordered it yesterday. It arrives on Monday. But now I feel really bad because the only person that has stick by my side for all these years have been my mom. She is already heart broken about this life of ours. BDD has stolen everything from us. I know she would die if she could. She talks about dying and meeting my grand grandma (which was the only person that really showed my mom love growing up).

We believe in Jesus, meaning we both expect to be in heaven. But right now. I’m so scared of hurting her if I die. She would be crushed 😭

What do I do? I can’t take this anymore. I’m so fucked.


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

I can never be free of the pain.

Upvotes

I have BPD. I am AMAB. I have C-PTSD, major depression and anxiety, fibromyalgia, who knows what else. I have lived with the suffering my entire life and I will never be free.

All the therapies for me just teach me how to gaslight myself into modifying my reactions so everyone else is comfortable. The grief, the rage, the loneliness, the desolation, they will never leave because I am brain damaged. I was twisted up and broken before I even hit seven years old.

I have special needs because of my disorder that nobody is interested in meeting and I can't stay in control of my emotions no matter what I do. I break down multiple times a week and nobody hears my pain because it just gets read as antagonism and abuse. I'm a fucking monster and I wish I was never born.

I've lost access to my children because their hypocrite, narcissistic mother never wanted me in the first place, just "babies". My partner seems incapable of understanding or listening to me or respecting my needs and boundaries, whether I'm talking rationally, asking, begging, sobbing, or screaming. I feel utterly alone and unwanted all the time. I think I am the reason my mother drank herself to death. My father practically ignores my existence and I have no friends.

I can't do this anymore. I hate my fucking life and I despise myself. I'm too psychologically damaged and physically disabled to be of any use to anyone.

I used to have so much potential and now it has been systematically ripped out of me by an endless parade of abuse, neglect, and the crushing weight of being disabled in poverty. I will never amount to anything and all I do is destroy everything I love.

I am ordering everything I need to make a helium exit bag and expect to take the necessary steps over the next fortnight. I already have 2.5g of codiene and 40g of paracetamol, 20g of quetiapine, and a few more grams of mirtazapine and amitriptyline for good measure - more than enough to take me out in my sleep anyway, so the bag is just extra insurance because I'm not interested in lingering on for days in pain or being rushed to the hospital.

I just needed to tell somebody how I feel and nobody in my life will let me finish a sentence so I'm writing it out for you. I have reached the end of my ability to tolerate the pain and I plan to step into the blackness. I'm not religious and I don't believe in an afterlife. I just need to stop being.

I'm not looking for any of you to talk me out of it or to tell me to give myself to Jesus or Allah or whoever. I just wanted to know that someone heard my pain once before I meet oblivion. My entire life has been a malaise of suffering and loss and I refuse to put up with that shit anymore.

I appreciate you for witnessing my pain. You are probably the first and the last to do so.

Thank you.