What if there's nothing wrong with us and we're just mediocre?
Someone with an IQ of 80 will probably never be able to attain a college degree. But that doesn't mean they have a disease. Their brains just don't work as well as most people's.
That is something a neuropsychologist would be able to discern, but a normal clinical or counseling psychologist would be a good place to start.
In general if you want to determine if you should be diagnosed with something, don't go to a social worker (they're wonderful for counseling/therapy, but typically they don't have extensive training in diagnosis and can't administer most psychological tests. A licensed clinical social worker may have one course in diagnosis taught by another social worker, whereas a ph.d. clinical psychologist will have years of descriptive psychopathology and assessment courses) or a psychiatrist (typically don't have the luxury of time to spend and won't be trained in the relevant psychological tests).
This is a vastly underrated comment. If you don't know what you have, a trip to the neurologist or neuropsychologist is better than trying to figure it out piecemeal. There could be memory issues, language issues, attention and learning issues, behavior issues, dietary issues and the doctor will know what tests and other specialists you need to understand what's going on completely. I had this done for my child and it made a world of difference.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I want to add that some clinical psychologist are, despite their training, not able or perhaps willing to give proper diagnosis. I've seen my younger brother go through multiple ones to be diagnosed different things by different people, put on various meds etc. Just because someone has qualifications doesn't mean they give enough of a shit to do a good job. Some of these people seemed to want nothing more but to tick boxes and be done with their day.
Yeah, as another person commented, there is variation in skill, training, and competence within psychologists (as with every profession).
My recommendation for seeing a psychologist first was because often neuropsychologists won't see patients without a referral. This referral could come from a primary care physician, and that's probably a good strategy as well, but also a psychologist hopefully knows which neuropsychologists in the area have a good reputation. If the psychologist you go to hoping for a referral got a Psy. D. from a diploma mill and is too stupid to understand the limits of his/her expertise, then the plan backfires (unfortunately sometimes professionals mistake "experience" for actual skill and knowledge, so as they continue in their careers they think they know better than other people simply because they've been doing it longer. Continuing education requirements in psychology are also pretty lax).
good point. The important function is to measure and localize the brain function and look for abnormalities. Someone with an IQ of 130 and a short term memory/executive function of a 3rd grader would be a red flag. The more you learn about "intelligence" the more it makes sense.
Each part of our brain has a function, and we search for specific areas associated with specific disorders!
The amount of experience a clinician has in assessment and their level of knowledge is not always determined by degree. Do some research in your state if you're from America- the requirements vary a lot.
Source: am a clinician
What if there's nothing wrong with us and we're just mediocre?
Someone with an IQ of 80 will probably never be able to attain a college degree. But that doesn't mean they have a disease. Their brains just don't work as well as most people's.
I am someone diagnosed with inattentive type. My testing showed natural intelligence scores in the 98th, 97th, and 74th percentile for the three components. That translates to approximately 145, 140, and 120 functional IQ scores. I failed, repeatedly, to attain a degree due to the inability to execute when needed. I had the knowledge, in a lot of cases it was trivial stuff to me. What got me was not being able to meet deadlines, not being able to sit down and study, etc. If I could go at my own pace and just do the assignments and tests and do away with deadlines/lectures/etc - I have no doubt I could earn a couple degrees in a fraction of the time. Not because I could will myself to "do" any more than I could before, but because once I finally start "doing" it's easier to keep the momentum and make it habit/routine/automatic. School is stop/go/stop/go so it's constantly having to refocus and regain the momentum - something that's exceedingly difficult for those with ADHD.
I think I wasn't clear enough in my comment--I wasn't trying to suggest that people with ADHD or chronic procrastinators have low intelligence. I brought up low IQ as an analogy. My intended point was that perhaps the ability to focus on boring tasks is a trait that's normally distributed just like IQ is, and that people who are below average on the trait will have a tougher time in life despite not having a disorder.
That's exactly what it is - the executive function in the brain is compromised. The thing that allows you to make yourself "do" doesn't activate or activates minimally (depending on what end of the spectrum you're on). The ability to focus is separate. In hyperactive they find they focus while doing other things. ie: they'll get up and run around and be crazy but then come back and answer the question initially asked if left to sort it out in their own way. Inattentive can focus for hours on end. I've focused for 34 hours straight on a task without break... unfortunately it was a completely useless task that did me no good. I had to pee like a race horse and was starving/exhausted once I stopped. While I was hyperfocusing I had no concept of time (despite a clock on my computer), signals my body was sending, people coming in and out of the room talking to me... just oblivious. It's freaking amazing when it happens on something that's actually productive but I can't control it (executive function again).
How about the person who crams 16 hours straight just before a very difficult exam and not only passes, but gets a an 84 percent score, when a quarter of the year fails it an only a handful of people got over 90?
However that same person is unable to start studying a few days before the exam, even if it's their 3rd year in law school and they should know better by now? And they know better, they just can't start until they can feel the proverbial gun against the back of their head.
This describes my academic career since middle school. I rarely got anything lower than a 90 on test (or a 4 on AP tests) but it would take me 12 times as long as my peers to complete an assignment that didn't pique my interest. I only managed to graduate highschool on time because I was only taking AP classes and electives that I was interested in. I probably would have failed without the AP classes, because nearly all of the coursework that was graded expanded on my knowledge of the subject it covered or asked me to form an argument rather than making you repeat what the teacher covered in class that day so that you could memorize it (which I never had trouble with).
I'm definitely working on improving my discipline, but I want to scream at my younger self for not being able to take my medication consistently and definitely wish I was diagnosed earlier than the second semester of Junior year, when I had to change my psychologist, who said that my past school performance and the way I described my temperament were a strong indication of Inattentive Type ADHD.
I don't know if it's quite that simple. I just finished my masters degree and I'm everything this whole thread says and I'm just as crappy at procrastinating. But when I need to perform (external pressure) I can perform above average. My masters was hard as hell to get, I got by with my "in the moment" abilities. I'm probably very mediocre, I'm not trying to r/iamverysmart here, I'm just a saying it really unlikely it's just a "mediocre person" issue. If it were I would not have outperformed the people without these issues. I think the difference is I have a lot more panicked and stressful moments when my procrastination catches up with me compared to those others..
I can only speak for myself but I was tested for a fairly high IQ and managed to balance everything in my younger life despite showing signs of ADD. Once I grew into adulthood and kept adding things to the plate, the balance started to shift to everything falling apart when I could no longer juggle what basically the video talks about. Handling everything as it whacks you in the face.
The real breaking point was after my wife and I had premature twins and so much was coming at me I essentially shut down. Obviously this was big strain on my marriage and not the best for fatherhood. I went and got diagnosed as ADD, confirmed what I kinda wondered for years. I took meds for a while and a lot of things got better, but I felt the dangers of addiction so I stopped cold turkey for almost a year. Recently took a new job and started taking vyvanse again a little over a month ago and it has definitely helped maintain the "balance" by letting me see what needs to be done and actually doing it.
Another way to possibly phrase what a lot of the procrastination feels like to support those in this thread that, like myself, heard from parents "How could you be ADD if you can sit for hours playing the same game". If something doesn't trigger a possible reward sensation or an enjoyment factor it's more than just "ugh I have to do some work" it literally gets shoved off and forgotten often in a matter of minutes until the "oh shit" moment when you realize you have forgotten x,y and z and frantically work to complete the tasks.
For this same reason, being able to sit still for a game is irrelevant. Your brain is far from still when playing and each achievement/reward is a feeling of being good at something and motivation to continue. I'd be curious to know if others with ADD also avoid the ridiculous achievements in games that require going outside of the norm or spending a ludicrous amount of time to collect. Unless I realize I'm near getting one of these already by mere coincidence I never waste my time on them.
EDIT: sorry, this post turned into a rambling nonsense.
TL;DR Tested very smart person with ADD and did very well when there was little in life to juggle. As more was added on out of direct control IE: wife/kids/jobs/house it all became more and more difficult to juggle in real time (no planning) and stuff just started getting forgotten and missed horribly
When I redid my psych evaluation to get ADHD accomedations they could actually factor it in and out of my IQ. I was up 10-20 points if they ignored the extra time it took me to do stuff.
good question. One of the hallmarks of ADHD is performance significantly incongruent with "IQ" or other objective measures of intelligence.
The two need to be evaluated together. The hallmark of ADHD kids in school is performance is poor in long term planning related tasks and assignments not in line with their test scores which depend more upon raw intelligence/intellectual function.
Neurocognitive testing is a way of determining this, as it breaks down tasks into specific neurological phenomenon and then is able to localize a defecit.
In neurology, we use different neurocognitive tests to localize the area of a stroke or brain injury all without ever needing to look at a CT scan or MRI.
One of the infamous tests is "draw a clock"
this is an innocuous task, however there are certain types of stroke that will lead to "hemineglect" (look it up. It's fascinating!) where the clock is a circle with the numbers all on one side.
We can use these tests of doing seemingly regular tasks to specifically activate one area of the brain to test its function.
A good thorough ADHD evaluation does specifically this, looking for frontal lobe function in the cingulate gyrus or "pre frontal cortex"
if you're still reading, thanks.
I'm writing a book or two right now IRL, so I pull from that a bit.
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u/[deleted] May 30 '17
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