r/streamentry • u/VegetableArea • 4d ago
Practice Does equanimity developed on the cushion transfer to real life?
I've been sitting consistently for about half an hour a day for last half a year and I see some gains and progress, usually after about 10 minutes my mind quiets down and I actually enjoy the practice and the slowing down of thoughts.
However my worry is, in daily life I dont see much improvement and I tend to succumb to the suffering created by the mind as easily as before. Any insights gained on the cushion dont seem to help in my busy daily life, and I tend to fall into unhappy thought loops, same as before starting the practice.
Any hints, comments?
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u/Diced-sufferable 4d ago
I see formal meditation as a means of accessing a less chaotic mind by calming down the environment first. However, if you’re only achieving a calmer mind under certain conditions, you’re not going to have a mind that calms down in conditions other than those.
Are you interested in giving up the thought loops? Not everyone is…they can be quite addictive. Or, we want to keep the good ones - indulge the good fantasies, but don’t enjoy when the negative loops run - which are the underpinnings of the good. It’s a package deal in other words.
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u/Guts_Philosopher 4d ago
What if you are interested in giving them up? How do you convert the practice into real-life applications across the majority of external conditions? How can I maintain a calm mind even if externally there is lots of chaos?
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u/Diced-sufferable 4d ago
Quite honestly, you have to want it bad enough; you have to be willing to give up attending to other things either out of habit or desire.
In hindsight, you can realize where you got all riled up, once you’ve calmed down. Pick it apart…what happened? What did you think, or when did you give up all awareness to rote, repetitive thought patterns. As you do this, it will tend to come to mind more often. What we seed tends to grow :)
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u/Guts_Philosopher 4d ago
Here's my caveat to that process; it's very possible a person has that level of "awareness" theoretically. Maybe they've done some introspection/contemplation, and then overtime, they begin to realize which patterns produce them stress. However, that doesn't automatically translate to them responding to their external stimulus well, and ultimately reducing their stress cycle.
Usually, people become aware of what negative aspects in their environment are causing them stress, and then they change those.
What am I missing here? Because for me, i can understand very evidently (i think) which external variables are triggering my stress. However, that awareness in itself doesn't help (assuming I can't change the external variable itself). Curious to see what you think i am missing here in my practice and what I can do better.
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u/Diced-sufferable 4d ago
I’m picking up, from what you put down, that you are placing a strong emphasis on ‘out there’ as mainly responsible for triggering your stressful patterns. Please, correct me if I’m misunderstanding.
Even if you’re aware enough to recognize stressful patterns when they activate, there is a pilot light that is always on…a deeply held conviction that can easily get sparked into an emotional response even against your better judgement.
Those intense moments are where you dig, and you keep digging until no matter what’s happening out there, it never sparks an unreasonable reaction from within you.
Make sense?
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u/Guts_Philosopher 3d ago
I appreciate the insight very much.
Do you have any recommendations or processes that help in this "digging further"? I find myself often getting stuck or having difficulties verifying if the conclusions I reach are even valid. And even if they are valid, how do I get my body to let go?
I seem to understand thereotically (e.g. I need to forgive my parents for certain things), but I find it difficult to release the trapped emotions to where the pilot light, as you described, somewhat dims over time.
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u/Diced-sufferable 3d ago
Not a problem :)
I liken it to hitting pay dirt, you know when you know. If the body doesn’t automatically let go (relax) you haven’t hit the core of it yet. The pilot light is way down at the bottom, it’s just a bunch of hot and lukewarm water above it.
Maybe it’s tied to your parents, but the core belief won’t have anything to do with them (probably) it will be about you. There is an unquestioned belief that maybe says, “I can’t do anything right; I can’t accept love; everyone will eventually hurt and betray me; everyone else is a real person and I’m not.” Even thoughts like these might not be deep enough. It will all depend on what you inadvertently picked up as a true thought, because at that time you didn’t have the wherewithal to know better.
Byron Katie has a great method for using very emotionally charged situations to pull up any surrounding thoughts for scrutiny.
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u/Guts_Philosopher 3d ago
This is all very insightful. I can tell you've done a lot of deep contemplation based on your explanations alone.
Thank you for the resource and providing me with a good direction on how to proceed :)!
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u/Diced-sufferable 3d ago
You’re very welcome! I hope you do the work to liberate yourself. Scott Kiloby is also someone who approaches from the emotional angle, less so the intellectual concepts. Really good for precognitive emotions.
All the best! :)
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u/Ordinary-Lobster-710 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think it's akin to asking, how prepared will you be for a marathon if you practice running half hour every day. 15 min is warm up stretch, and then 5 min cool down. so like 10 min of actual practice per day to run a 5 hour marathon
an hour minimum is what ppl say you need in order to start seeing results. you should see for yourself if giving it a real chance has an effect on your life.
I think mastering your mind's ability to stay equanimous is a tremendous challenge. Even in highschool, in order to learn algebra, you had to go to class for an hour a day. And then you had a half hour of homework. And that was just for highschool algebra. If you want to make progress with your ability to induce equanimity I would probably give it at least as much effort as it takes to learn algebra.
It takes a long time for most people to meditate before their mind even "drops in" so I don't think half hour you are doing enough per day to rewire your brain to get the kind of long lasting equanimity you want.
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u/autistic_cool_kid 3d ago
The best thing that 45 mins a day did to me was motivating me to do 1 hour
Which actually changed my life and motivated me to do 2 hours
Which changed my life even faster
Although nothing last, I struggle to do 2 hours these days because life right now is super busy and kinda stressful, thankfully it's calming down, excited to go back on that train
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u/eudoxos_ 4d ago
You said nothing about what your practice is. I will assume it is some kind of calming, as you mention slowing down thoughts and enjoying it.
Find some practice which is targeting daily life. If you are new to this, structure can help a lot — perhaps something like MBSR: grounding in the body, identifying feelings and thoughts, dealing with difficult feelings, thought loops, self-judgment, recognizing when the mind goes onto autopilot etc. If you think it is kindergarten: that depends on how much investigation you bring in there.
You need to get really really intimate with you own suffering to let go of it. The idea (not saying you subscribe to it, but some folks do) that meditation will give you equanimity without facing your stuff is a fairytale. One which actually has a name: spiritual bypass.
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u/autistic_cool_kid 3d ago
Vipassana taught me you had to confront the pain to not suffer from it
And oh boy did I have pains inside, cravings and aversions from complex traumas
80% of their strength is gone by now I think but those were not easy demons to face
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u/magnifcenttits 4d ago
What exactly is the process of facing your stuff for you specifically? Because you can for example realize that situation A makes you mad, and meditation can be a tool for recognizing that and regulating that, but what other tools do you mean when saying by facing your stuff? I for example know that my fear of failure is the reason i don't try new things and I know that I need to go anyways to those place outside the comfort zone, but I don't do that because of the fear. Are you referring that to facing it or you means also something completely different?
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u/eudoxos_ 3d ago
This is exactly what I mean. But instead of "regulating" (which is, as most people mean it, an expression of aversion, judgment, suppression) first really plunge into it in real-time: what triggers are there (sensory input), what perception of the situation, feeling tone, what happens in the body, what is the reaction inside/outside, what feelings are present: seeing the process as it unfolds. Having a structure here is really helpful. Equanimity (as in: cool no matter what happens) is a fruit of the practice of insight, and not an easy one.
If you do on-cushion insight practices, this kind of conditioning will come up as well (such as thoughts about being meditation failure), that is also precious opportunity for insight.
There is equanimity which comes from seclusion (=little happening), that's the stabiliziation (samatha) practice. It is useful, you see potential of the mind, you can recognize off-cushion when the mind is agitated (most ppl have no clue, since it is just always agitated). But it has its limits, because there is no insight into what is happening, and once you are out of the meditation, it feels like being back to square one. Because, from the point of view of insight and letting go of old patterns, you really are.
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u/Zestyclose_Mode_2642 4d ago
The more you meditate the more sensitive you become to the carry-over of awareness to daily life
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u/Skylark7 Soto Zen 4d ago
In Zen, we also practice off the cushion. Mindful walking, chanting, Zen forms, and housework like sweeping, cooking, or doing dishes (samu) are all ways we practice moving equanimity to everyday activities. Driving, sports, music, arts and crafts, or Buddhist study can also be opportunities to pay attention to NOW.
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u/GAGA_Dimantha 4d ago
Well what i did was, i tried to be mindful or keep observing my mind about what comes and goes on unusual places like public buses or in public areas when I’m alone. After a while this becomes kinda habit. I don’t close my eyes, i just keep them open and observe what my mind do with the things i see hear or smell or feel.
After doing this for time i know how to observe even in a unpleasent moments. Im a calm person than before, thanks to this practices
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u/JohnShade1970 4d ago
Great question that every meditator should ask themselves.
A couple of thoughts.
1.Are you following the 5 precepts? Not a few of them but all of them? Are you engaging in right action, right speech and right livelihood? If you're not then I'm afraid that the meditation your doing will only scratch the surface of your daily life.
While you should be applauded for developing a consistent daily practice on the cushion, you will need to sit more for it to start the purification process. Try sitting for 45 minutes for the next week. Or even better, add another sit of 30 minutes later in the day. Half hour will help calm the mind a bit but it won't get to root causes and conditions. In general, for real substantive changes you should be aiming for a "minimum of 90 minutes of practice daily.
Try being mindful of the breath and/or body sensations all day long. At first this will seem very hard but as you pick up steam you'll start to see big changes.
There is something called the transfer problem in education which is basically that developing a skill in one area won't make you better necessarily at another skill even if it seems like it should. The goal ultimately should be 24/7 mindfulness. Hard to do but the wall between your sitting practice and life needs to come down or at least get more porous.
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u/VegetableArea 4d ago
Do you mean the eightfold path or five precepts? I'm not well acquainted with Buddhism
Would 2x30 minutes a day help? It'd be definitely easier than 1x45
That's my intuition too, I think I need to introduce some practice outside the cushion. I listened to Eckhart Tolle and remember he said , when thoughts want to pull him in, he would focus on his environment and sense perceptions to ground in the present moment. I might need such a skill
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u/JohnShade1970 4d ago
2x30 is better than 1x45. You can also use weekends for targeted mini-retreats. Like on one sunday a month try to sit for 4x30 in the mornings.
Check out https://www.dougmcgill.com/the-daily-tejaniya It might give you ideas for practice in daily life.
And Sila is the conduct aspect of the eightfold path. Yes it's essential to progress. No intoxicants, no sexual misconduct, no lying, cheatings etc.
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u/PetSitterPat 2d ago
My break thru to equanimity in everyday life came when I started working with Vedana (feeling tones). So noting Pleasant /Unpleasant / Neutral
At first, I did it most often while driving in traffic, because thats when I would get frustrated and remember to do it. Then I remebered more often in other areas (usually when I would get irritated or feel anger). So lots of Unpleasant. Then I realized I had created the habit. Now I catch myself *all* the time and I can stay in Equanimity most of the day. I can definitely catch myself and stop ruminating etc.
Once I note Pleasant/Unpleasant that is usually all my brain needs to accept what is going on and to just move on.
Give it a try. The more you do it, the more it becomes habit. For me the hardest part was remembering to do it, but once I started doing it when dealing with traffic, that was where the habit formed. After that it just compounded.
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u/ax8ax 4d ago
Any hints, comments?
Ask yourself: the fact that a person can feel really concentrated, calm, and pleasant while playing a piano two hours a day... would necessary lead such person to develop equanimity in real life?
If you want equanimity in real life, you need to practice equanimity in real life, from morning to night. Equanimity comes from acting, speaking, and thinking in the right way, not from being a lifeless rock.
The Right meditation is inseparable from the Right view. That means that even if a person doesn’t have the Right view, their meditation should be concerned about getting it. To put it simply – it comes down to developing the self-transparency (or self-honesty) concerning skilful as skilful (kusala) and unskilful as unskilful (akusala). The Buddha defined the Right view [i.e.: stream entry] in those very terms – knowing “good as good”, and “bad as bad”. The person with the Right view knows for oneself, beyond any doubt, kusala as kusala and akusala as akusala. Discerning the nature of kusala and akusala has the potential of taking the mind above both. Freeing it from action (kamma) and it’s results (vipaka) [i.e.: equanimity], since they are bound to the domain of skilful and unskilful.
If one wants to practice in a manner that pertains to this final goal of freedom, he needs to become very mindful and honest about intentionality behind any actions. That is because it is the intention that defines wholesome action as wholesome and unwholesome as unwholesome.
If one needs to meditate, one needs to be concerned with one’s actions and choices. (Which is also why sila or virtue comes before the Dhamma). Through this persistent self-questioning one can also see whether an action that is about to be, is rooted in an unskilful motive. Like sensuality, ill will, vanity or distraction for example.
These three quotes are from this article https://www.hillsidehermitage.org/intentions-behind-ones-actions/ If you like what it says I suggest you to read the book "The only way to jhana", and then "Dhamma within reach", which can be found in that website.
Best wishes
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u/babybush 4d ago edited 4d ago
Because 30 min a day on the cushion will not change the rest of the 23.5 hours off the cushion unless you make an effort to bring your practice with you. It is a difficult commitment, but preserving your "continuity of practice" will transform life off the cushion.
Slowly and mindfully get off of your cushion, and go about your day with mindfulness.. you'll inevitably forget in a few minutes maybe even for hours at a time, maybe until the next day. But as soon as you remember your practice— anytime, anywhere— simply "begin again" and bring awareness back to your breath or whatever you are doing, even if it last for only a few seconds. You don't have to be on the cushion to do this.
You'll forget quickly but next time you remember, begin again. And again. And again. Eventually the boundary between "practice" and life will begin to dissolve.
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u/Fishy_soup 3d ago
Do you let yourself sit with any difficult emotions when meditating?
I also find it very helpful to bring awareness when they arise off the cushion, taking a breath, letting myself feel them, and inviting some compassion.
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u/VegetableArea 3d ago
the problem is, difficult emotions dont come up when meditating, they come during stressful events in the day
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u/Fishy_soup 3d ago
You can bring that awareness and compassion as they occur during the day too! And not just for difficult moments :)
Bonus video: this dharma talk really helped me with loops of guilt and shame (around a bad habit i had, but now come back to it for other things). The lesson of treating yourself with compassion in difficult situations is a powerful one.
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