r/wallstreetbets 23h ago

Discussion 5 rate cuts 😮

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u/DPMKIV 23h ago

It's called a FED bailout...

It theoretically should ease the free fall to prevent an all-out crash.

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u/CoughRock 23h ago

adp non-farm report just came out. Much higher non-farm employment than predicted. We are screwed in term of rate cut. High unemployment and high core inflation gave jpowell easy excuse for pause rate and wait and see.

it's going to take a miracle to see rate cut now.

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u/DPMKIV 23h ago

We'll see what actually happens. I mean... they printed money when COVID hit to keep the US spending.

If this sell off starts triggering massive buying of off shore stocks due to unease in US stocks... they gotta do something to keep investors in US stocks.

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u/spookyswagg 22h ago

Ya, but inflation was at 2% then.

Inflation is predicted to rise this year, 4%, next year by >4%

Rate cuts now would just make that way worse…

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u/clapsandfaps 22h ago

Honestly do they have a choice?

Not to be a doomsayer, but with rising inflation (again) due to tariffs, probable layoffs due to reduced demand on american goods due to tariffs and combine that with high interest to fight the self-induced inflation, people will default, a lot. Even domesctically produced goods will be hit with inflation due to potash tariffs.

I’m seeing in my unqualified crystal ball, a depression happening.

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u/Massive-Opposite-705 21h ago

What the end goal if you print more money for a bail out just continue kicking the can down the road. It’s like we’re building a dam that gets weaker each renovation and gets more water behind it. The longer you keep repairing it with tape and sticks the bigger the flood will be when it collapses. Let pain hit when it is supposed to hit rather than pushing it to the next generation double

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u/Syab_of_Caltrops Dirty HODLer 21h ago

The US is a world champ can kicker. You underestimate this country's can kicking skills.

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u/onpg 18h ago

That worked because we were the world reserve currency. Something our Dear Leader is working very hard to end.

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u/Syab_of_Caltrops Dirty HODLer 18h ago

What's going to replace it, a BRICS currency? The Euro?

I'm not denying there's pressure on the Petro Dollar and there are strong efforts to create an alternative, but all those alternatives are laughable, even conaidering the upheaval at the moment.

Humans love creaming doom and gloom, but it almost never come to pass.

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u/onpg 15h ago edited 14h ago

How old are you? Curious. They were laughable. Until this week.

Edit: well, until Trump won re-election actually. Because after that all of this was kind of inevitable.

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u/Syab_of_Caltrops Dirty HODLer 13h ago

Well out of college.

But seriously, in what word do middle eastern countries trade crude in Euros, or Western countries trade crude in a currency backed by China or Russia?

Even if they were open to it, it would take much longer than any of Trump's emergency provisions will last.

Dude's gone completely off the rails, but you're catastrophizing if you think that transition will happen any time soon. The long view on this is still fine. That can change, but right now we have no clue how things will shape up.

EDIT: If Inwas a betting man (and I am, this is WSB), I'd say a lot of this will be challeneged and over turned by courts. And, at that point, I think the Trump admin will see it as a relief and a way to get out of a very bad position they've put themselves in.

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u/onpg 13h ago

The problem is we've become a pariah on the world stage. You'd be surprised what people are capable of when pushed hard enough.

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u/highroller_rob 58m ago

Hot Take: Trump is working to replace the USD with bitcoin.

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u/Krisevol 19h ago

Every world power that has fallen, did so because they kicked the can. Every one of them.

Our choice now or raise rates to 10+% and pay back the debt... Or crumble like the rest.

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u/Syab_of_Caltrops Dirty HODLer 19h ago

LOL, this has been the line for 30 years (since the 90s inflationary period). If you call for the fall of Rome every day for 600 years you'll eventually be right.

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u/Krisevol 19h ago

Yup we will eventually collapse due to debt

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u/crimeo 8h ago

Current debt is completely fine. 1.3x your income is not that high actually. A couple with a new mortgage can be at like 600% of their income in debt and still not even be sub-prime, if they have a good job (the USA is like the guy with the best job of all, normally)

It WON'T be if we print trillions and trillions of dollars instead of just repealing stupid tariffs etc. and no longer "have a good job" anymroe in a depression, etc. But as of November 2024 under normal procedures and business as usual, it was not a meaningful threat at all.

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u/PrideOfAmerica 19h ago

They trained the Saints how to kick the can

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u/Aquarius_Age 21h ago

It's been that way since 2008 unfortunately, apparently there's no alternative

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u/YeetnotherThrowawayy 20h ago

no alternative that would keep power hungry fucktards who want complete control on the global financial system happy at least.

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u/jawndell 21h ago

That’s what Volcker did in the 80s.  Just rip the bandaid off and let the economy heal. 

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u/YeetnotherThrowawayy 20h ago

the whole fiat system which is deeply inherently flawed is built on kicking the can down the road as long as you can..

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u/_senor_snrub 18h ago

what happens when you delete the water out of the excel sheet?

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u/InclementBias 14h ago

everyone said this during covid prints and then during post 2008 QE and by all accounts JPow was landing the plane in insane crosswinds and we were so close while coping with the pain after all of us pointed and said it was impossible.. then this happens.

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u/Massive-Opposite-705 13h ago

Jpow was doing a great job it sucks that he doesn’t get to close his tenure the way it could have gone. If he pulled off the soft landing it would’ve been incredible. Now we’ll never know

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u/Drachos 18h ago

What you are describing is called stagflation and from the massive global experiment that was the 70s oil crisis (cause by OPEC refusing to export oil, so not a bad comparison to now) the BEST way to handle it is thus:

The reserve bank handles the inflation The government increases the safety nets And the public get ready to be raped.

The nation's whose central bank and government ignoring inflation to keep people in jobs ended up having inflation accelerate to much, wages went backwards and since they still had no oil, unemployment STILL continued to rise.

So they achieved nothing but wasted money and made things worse.

The nation that ignored everything but inflation also faired poorly, but not as poorly.

The nations who saw that no amount of government money was going to stop a lack of oil from crushing the job market so instead focused on accepting the high unemployment and catching people as they fell did best.

It freed the central banks hand to do the bloody work that needed to be done and made sure the worst of the pain fell on those who still worked.

Now obviously the price hikes and supply issues will be caused by the tarriffs this time, instead of OPEC. But the outcome is the same. The reserve bank MUST follow what it learned in the 70s and if need be publically make it clear that the safety net is government responsibility.

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u/clapsandfaps 17h ago

Yeah, this is about to get bloody, trump and safety net does not fit in the same sentence.

So short and long term puts on everything is the play?

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u/Kabouki 17h ago

Now add in one more variable. Trump moves on say Greenland as a distraction. Us oil and food exports get sanctions.

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u/Bcider 21h ago

Yes, let it crash. Hard reboot the economy. Kicking the can since 2008 has screwed everyone.

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u/-gawdawful- 21h ago

That was nearly 20 years ago. There is no hard rebooting the economy. The entire economy is based around the federal government propping up loser businesses and insanely useless tech enterprises. There is no rebuilding this house of cards.

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u/Oberschicht 20h ago

2008

That was nearly 20 years ago.

This is truly the worst news of the day

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u/Krisevol 19h ago

For the generation that will never be able to buy a house it is.

If we keep kicking the can, the next generation won't even be able to afford rent.

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u/Pleasant_Race2717 20h ago

Wouldn’t be so pessimistic. Dot com bubble was a similar shitfest and it eventually corrected.

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u/IHateLayovers 13h ago

The government isn't propping up tech. Big Tech prints money to send to DC for DC to buy flyover state votes.

Everybody was all doom and gloom about tech when interest rates rose. No, Mag 7 became a thing and while non-tech companies stagnated you saw Apple bust past $3 trillion. Even in our "high" interest rate environment you see OpenAI reach $300 billion valuation without government nonsense like Farm Welfare.

The past 5 years has proven it. Interest rates up? Big Tech. Interest rates down? Big Tech.

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u/Jangandong 8h ago

Agree. Just let it all crash for a couple of years and destroy inflation.

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u/matthewkulp 8h ago

It's not a computer you just restart and it works different. You have to actually have a coherent theory of macroeconomics that is supported by evidence in order to make good policy.

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u/atpplk 20h ago

I’m seeing in my unqualified crystal ball, a depression happening.

That's a feature, not a bug.

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u/Pleasant_Race2717 20h ago

If they print more money dollar will nosedive. With these tariffs demand for USD will go down, add billions in quantitative easing and you are set for disaster.

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u/SuspendedAwareness15 14h ago

Rising inflation due to tariffs leads to rate HIKES, if the goal was to cap inflation. Yeah we are going into a recession right now, one we caused on purpose, when our economy was in a delicate position and we had no room to absorb recovery measures.

This decision guarantees we are fucked. There is nothing left to do but watch it fall.

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u/inb4ElonMusk As Featured on CNBC Once 📺 12h ago

I thought potash was exempted in an EO

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u/clapsandfaps 12h ago

It wasn’t, then it was. Hard to keep track.

What potash tariffs are in place right now? Canadian potash imports into the U.S. not covered by CUSMA are currently subject to 10 per cent tariffs and that is where they will remain for now.

How much of that is not covered, who knows.

https://thestarphoenix.com/business/what-you-need-to-know-about-tariffs-on-potash

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u/inb4ElonMusk As Featured on CNBC Once 📺 11h ago

I’m assuming they’re going to start importing a lot from Belarus and Russia. Potash prices still up about 5% over the past month.

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u/crimeo 8h ago

Neither is a good choice, there is no good choice other than impeaching Trump.

So when you have no clearly good choice as the Fed, then projecting "100% pRoBabiLitY" for one of the choices is dumb, it could go either way

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u/Der_Hebelfluesterer 21h ago

Inflation versus economy the FED will choose economy and reduce rates anyway

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u/Syab_of_Caltrops Dirty HODLer 21h ago

Who is predicting that? There is literally no data.

Yeah, sure, argue back "everyone knows X or Y" the truth is that uncertainty and fear is driving everything right now, not certainty and bad data.

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u/Stockengineer 21h ago

Inflation due to policy changes interesting to see what he does.

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u/commandandtakeit 20h ago

Exactly. Fed between a rock and a hard place with their hands tied behind their backs.

I guess that’s what happens when the bailout comes before the collapse like with the fake dump and then pump during Covid