Dealing with insane chip damage on Lance?

[u/Traditional_Tune2865]

Basically the title. Really high chip damage wasn't really a thing in World until the final couple monsters if you had a decent build, but in Wilds I'm already coming up against really high chip damage, with max lvl guard, against attacks from monsters like tempered Gore and Zoh Shia. I've been trying to hit more perfect guards and play some evade lance, but I don't play lance so I can dodge attacks or the need to have perfect timing against half the attacks from these monsters. My understanding of Guard Up is that the reduction in damage is only for unblockable attacks so I don't think that would help any either.

Does lance now just require perfect timing in order to keep you from sheathing every couple attacks to heal or am I missing something?

[u/Alius_Facade]

Guard up is ALL damage not just unblockable. It enables you to block the normally unblockable attacks. Im not fully sure it allows you to block everything but from what Ive seen on some of the subs it does.

[u/Dezere → u/Alius_Facade]

Unless Wilds is different from Rise and IB, this is just not the case, Guard up has traditionally only reduced damage from the unblockable hits that are enabled with Guard up and nothing seemed to change here as far as i'm aware

[u/Skelefellah → u/Dezere]

I think you're correct. I think the tooltip is just very confusing for people who are coming straight to this game from World.

Basically Guard Up confers less DR against unblockables in Risebreak/Wilds than it did in World. It was a deliberate nerf in Risebreak, because Guard sets in World were pretty busted. That's what the percentages in the tooltip are trying (poorly) to explain.

[u/aromaticity → u/Dezere]

It's also not reduced damage, at least compared to normal guards. It's increased damage.

Normally you take 0/10/20% chip damage at s/m/l knockback. With Guard Up 3 all unblockables deal 20% chip regardless of knockback.

[u/PassakornKarn → u/Alius_Facade]

It does allow you to block everything but seems to not negate all chip damage.

I tried lvl 3 Guard AND lvl 3 Guard Up but still takes chip damage. Even with the super guard move, I’m always barely alive from full health blocking Zoh Shia 5 fireballs move.

I was able to block the one-shot lightning move with minimal chip damage though.

[u/VisibleDraw → u/PassakornKarn]

The fireball combo is pretty easy to perfect guard. If you block one, you don't even need to time the others because the window for perfect guarding is very generous. Just drop shield the second one hits and put it right back up, and you're golden. You do get fireblighted through the shield sometimes, though.

I'm not sure how/if Guard Up interacts with perfect guarding unblockable attacks, since I don't use the skill myself, but Zoh's only two unblockable attacks (vertical cone and nova) are telegraphed well enough that you can reposition on reaction.

Additionally, Zoh's fireblight WILL kill you if you're using corrupted mantle, so be wary of that. I'd recommend grabbing a Fire Res talisman if you're still using the mantle, getting fire defense up to 20 should make you immune to fireblight.

[u/Liar83 → u/VisibleDraw]

I used guard up until I learned his move set, but IIRC the vertical fire breath attack only does a single blockable hit and the rest is just animation that you can dps through, assuming we're thinking of the same attack. The huge one you can tank but I have no idea about perfect block timings on it, it didn't occur to me to try.

[u/VisibleDraw → u/Liar83]

I've never had any success blocking the vertical fire attack without guard up, though it may have been due to positioning. I find his nova much easier to deal with than Jin Dahaad's, since you can easily create safe spaces with a couple slinger shots. There's also the matter of the huge blind spot right behind Zoh during most of his AoE attacks.

[u/Liar83 → u/VisibleDraw]

Sorry, I specified poorly. I meant if using guard up its just a single hit attack that you can block, despite the long fire animation. I'll try to guard counter it next time I'm in position to do so (with no guard up), for science.

[u/VisibleDraw → u/Liar83]

The single hit property is pretty funny for tackling, I'll keep that in mind

[u/Liar83 → u/VisibleDraw]

I was wrong, it's two hits, one at the start and one at the end. If standing directly under him I would counter the first and then get hit by the second. I could reliably counter it if I was standing further back towards his tail but still in range of it only getting hit once in that case.

[u/Traditional_Tune2865 → u/Alius_Facade]

I'll have to slot in Guard Up and try and couple hunts to see, but when I looked it up to double check before posting this thread and I couldn't find much but I did find several people on reddit and steam claiming Guard Up does nothing for non guard-up attacks (ie attacks you can normally block).

[u/Skelefellah → u/Traditional_Tune2865]

Guard Up does absolutely nothing against attacks that are normally blockable. It's just a confusing tooltip.