r/politics • u/sweatycat New York • 1d ago

California to Negotiate Trade With Other Countries to Bypass Trump Tariffs

https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414
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u/airemy_lin 1d ago

The stepping stones for American balkanization.

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u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

American balkanization is horrible idea for American's FYI.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

For many, yes. Because California and the east coast bankroll them. However, for the east coast and California, it’s likely a smart move. I’d totally vote to go along with California if it were offered to the western and rocky states minus Utah.

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u/mmf9194 New York 1d ago

God that'd be great. All for that.

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u/DoubleSuccessor 1d ago

The Blue states would need enough WMDs stay unconquered after, either kept from the US or newly built.

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u/Absurdkale 1d ago

Washington has the other half of the boomers fleet and a fuck ton of stored nukes.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

True. I mean, a lot of Texas waterlines run through my state of New Mexico. Probably wouldn’t take that much fentanyl to OD Lubbock and Amarillo via their morning coffee or their kids brushing their teeth, if they invaded.

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u/DoubleSuccessor 1d ago

Massachusetts has a lot of weapons industries and MIT has a nuclear lab. Wouldn't be shocking if it was being considered already in a dark room somewhere in the state house.

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u/absentbird Washington 1d ago

California + Oregon + Washington alliance, take the Pacific away from the fascist union. Hawaii and Alaska can come too.

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u/shofmon88 Australia 1d ago

You’d be better off with Utah over Idaho. 

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u/travelingAllTheTime 1d ago edited 1d ago

Would rather not have a state run by a cult join.

That's what we are trying to get away from, Religious Fascism.

E: I mean both of them.

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u/The_Autarch 1d ago

Idaho is also currently run by a cult.

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u/shofmon88 Australia 1d ago

Idaho is far more radical than Utah, but the comment I responded to said take all of the western states except Utah, so I proposed a trade, going off the premise only one wouldn’t be joining. 

However, to be fair, I imagine that the OP simply forgot Idaho existed. Easy mistake. 

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u/bob721 1d ago

More Mormons in Idaho than in Utah, sadly

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u/Zanhana California 1d ago

I'd rather leave behind both

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u/termanader Wisconsin 1d ago

If we are talking about a hypothetical balkanization of America, Utah would probably join up with Cascadia or the Redoubt state over California.

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u/iPinch89 1d ago

Hey! Save me too!

-blue dude in UT

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

Only if you dispose of the cult.

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u/iPinch89 1d ago

Help me, Guilty-Shoulder, you're our only hope.

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u/btmoose 1d ago

It never ceases to amaze me how the Donner party went through the area in 1846 and showed what a stupid fucking idea it was to try to get to California that way because SLC has the Wasatch Mountains on one side and the Great Salt Lake Desert on the other. Going that way was the fuckup that cost so many of them their lives. 

Then a year later, the Mormons got there and Brigham Young declared it home sweet home because they’d been run out of everywhere else. 

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u/MasterChildhood437 1d ago

I mean, just the one dude can be refugeed, can't he? Not a cult if it's just him.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

True, but that cult existing brings up images of Bioshock Infinite and Utah becoming a regional pain in the ass since their religion encompasses a fucked up sense of Americana with an extremely racist past

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u/External-Tiger-393 1d ago

Do you know how much violence and instability (which adds to violence but also creates social and economic crises) that balkanization has? It's probably the worst thing that could happen as a result of this presidency. Balkanization isn't peaceful, it's horrifying, and it should scare you.

I'd love if California could peacefully secede from the union and maybe bring Washington, Colorado and Oregon with it -- but let's be honest, that can't happen. And an armed secession only works (historically speaking) with backing from a foreign power, and I don't think we're gonna get the same deal that the revolutionary Americans got with France where they got funding, supplies and troops without giving up independence or power.

For example, neither Canada nor Mexico has any reason to back a secession effort; any country that does is probably hostile to both us and the US as a whole. It's not great.

Technically the corridor I just mentioned could join Canada, if they wanted us... But then we'd make the majority of Canada's population, which isn't a great deal for a democracy.

However, I'd love to see a real life New California Republic. Because I live in California now, and the state flag looks so fucking wrong when the bear has only one head.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

There’s no doubt it’d be violent, but empires only last around 250 years before a reset is needed and right now, this nation and its leaders are not in the position to make that reset happen especially when you have a cabal of ultra wealthy individuals, with foreign backings, trying to consolidate wealth while tech bros are creaming themselves over the possibility of cyberpunk 2077 style, neofeudal states they think they have the power to manifest.

Division is inevitable at this point. I don’t really see any other path forward as long as the current state system and its senate continue to exist.

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u/Papayaslice636 1d ago

Balkanization in the US is unthinkable, I can't begin to imagine the logistics and consequences. The thought sure sounds nice on paper but thinking it through...does CA get to keep the nukes in the state? Whats to guarantee the US won't invade the same way Russia just invaded Ukraine? What about the naval bases in SD and SF? What about the 1000+ mile unsecured border with the rest of the country? USA is too big to fail...idk how to move forward...

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u/baked_couch_potato 1d ago

that violent secession is the only way California is not under the heel of a trumpian empire a decade from now

America is over, dude. so it's either balkanization in which the non fascist states form their own coalitions or every state ends up like Florida and Texas and Ohio and all the other states going out of their way to kill trans people, deport brown people, and let women bleed to death in hospital parking lots

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u/usmclvsop America 1d ago

You’re assuming California remains being controlled by people you agree with in the aftermath. That’s not a guarantee. musk could decide he wants to be king of Cali and hire millions of mercenaries to control the state. Maybe it means bioterrorism with weapons provided by Russia. It’s dangerous to assume the right side will come out on top.

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u/Absurdkale 1d ago

The right side is already not on top.

The better solution is one that will keep our country together clearly. But I think current events has shredded any notion more than a third of this country can vote beyond "hur hur, commie liberals, hur hur"

We're at a point where political norms and institutions that have kept this country together despite turmoil and partisan bullshit have been shattered in a matter of mere months.

I'm not saying I want balkanization, because it would ultimately be risky and likely violent, but also I don't hold out hope we come back from this as a unified country aymore.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/usmclvsop America 1d ago

Oh this same comment by another username…hi bot!

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u/KlicknKlack 1d ago

its not though, does no one teach or read the federalist papers anymore?

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u/Zanhana California 1d ago edited 1d ago

lmao yeah I'm sure the Founding Fathers [insert the world's biggest jackoff motion] were really worried about Spanish territory in California leaving the U.S. 250 years later

(also, remind me why anyone should give a fuck what those slaveowners thought?)

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u/wyomingTFknott 1d ago

Yeah well the USD wasn't a fiat currency then either. Doesn't mean it wouldn't collapse if our country broke up.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 21h ago

[deleted]

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u/KlicknKlack 1d ago

because of the content and wisdom within them? You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. A lot of the points still stand as quite valid reasons for a strong central government. But yeah, current shit needs some rework - which was the point

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u/BoogieOrBogey 1d ago

Texas is the major energy provider for the entire country, and is the fastest growing economy of all the states. States like Alabama and Florida have critical NASA infrastructure that can't be replaced. Balkanization would seriously damage every state. Our Union does make us stronger, as long as we can keep it.

As much as people act like Cali could succeed and do better, they really can't. Their economy is built upon the union of other states.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

Yeah, and the natural resource curse shows with Texas and the massive disparity in quality of life. I’m sorry, but the amount of your population living in campers, because they have to, is deplorable.

And it’s kinda cringe how half of you will scream for Texas independence and then talk about “unity” the moment your local government’s dysfunction reaches the Federal Government.

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u/BoogieOrBogey 1d ago

I'm from Florida and live in Maryland dude, chill out. Personal attacks on a strawman doesn't invalidate my comment.

I'm not saying that any of the Southern States are paradigms of good places to live. There are many reasons my family left Florida and never moved back. But acting like Cali is self-sufficient is wrong. All 50 states rely on the others, and that interconnectivity is what made the US such a powerful economy and country.

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u/BengalsGonnaBungle 1d ago

Their economy is built upon the union of other states.

That union is dead regardless of what California does.

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u/BoogieOrBogey 1d ago

That's pretty doomer mentality. The US struggled through a full on Civil War to maintain the Union. Don't act like it's all over because the stock market is crashing.

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u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

It's not a smart move for California and the East Coast. Division and isolation is trap that always makes you weaker.

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u/-GoBills- 1d ago

They would immediately align their interests with Canada, the EU, and the rest of the sane world.

Republicans are hell bent on division and isolation, let them have it in their garbage red states.

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u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

Don't fall for the trap. One of the reasons that Republican politicians are so dangerous is that they push division. Division is not a solution. It's a threat. Don't fall into the same trap as Republicans.

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u/-GoBills- 1d ago

That's about as useful as saying "Being cut is bad so it's better to let the cancer spread than have surgery".

Republican politicians are so dangerous is that they push division

They're dangerous because a huge voter base comprised of proudly ignorant, racist, and morally bankrupt individuals let them do anything they want without any scrutiny or self-reflection.

You can try and reach across the aisle all you want, it doesn't work with fascists and theocrats who think they have divine permission from god to be horrible human beings. Maybe if they had the capacity to be ashamed we wouldn't be in this mess, but we've been far too tolerant for far too long.

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u/EitherSpite4545 1d ago

These people are never going to learn to behave like civilized people, there is nothing to come together with them. It's time to cut the cancer off.

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u/Malaix 1d ago

They push division between groups of people within the country. They want us bitter but trapped and in this corpse nation while they loot us. Other nations have good qualities of life without being a continent spanning empire.

I’d rather have the north east free to pursue that better life than constantly being pulled by and dragged down by the regressive south and Midwest.

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u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

Other nations have largely been at the whim of the US lately. Integration makes societies wealthy and safe through reduced conflict and increased cooperation. Individualist/isolationist mentalities breed more conflict.

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u/Malaix 1d ago

Which is why I support secession to join in closer bonds with NATO, Canada, the EU, the UN, the ICC, the WHO, and others. The red states all want to isolate from that like s bunch of bitter hermits and live under a dictator who says enslaving women and eliminating brown and LGBTQ people is the future.

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u/MissionCreeper 1d ago

If someone in the backseat tells my passenger to grab the wheel and drive us off a cliff, I dont care if thats the fault of the backseat guy- Im kicking the passenger out of the moving car to save myself.

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u/WookieMonsta 1d ago

Well our country is already so divided, at this point it might not be a horrible idea for the coasts to be “weaker” but also able to engage in free trade, cut ties with Trump, and save face in the global theater. Like right now the US is broadly implementing isolationist policies which will make its whole weaker and bring an end to US hegemony, so it could be viewed as a matter of figuring who to align with and whether they want to go down with the ship.

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u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc 1d ago

It could be the start of the fracturing of America. If this actually happens the West Coast alliance will have to have a governing body for trade and commercial purposes. That could transform into a general governing body that could eventually challenge the fascist part of the US.

Better start planning your move to Cali.

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u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

People need to wake up and realize that part of the reason things look bleak is increased division. Pushing further into division will not make our situation brighter. That's only something that adversaries like Russia and China would benefit from.

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u/Zanhana California 1d ago

that's a 2012 ass "look at this bad political polarization" take. sorry but I fucking want to be divided from the theocrats and fascists

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u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc 1d ago

I don't think it will benefit them if the economic part of America shuns fascism in favor of forming a new alliance. That's because this new alliance could replace the US in world trade, California has enough economic power to keep the US dollar stable by itself. The world wouldn't feel pressured to change to some other currency, just pressured to not trade with the old America. Russia and China might gain the short term but if it all worked out the West Coast alliance would be a world powerhouse as well. Imagine every military base in the world having to choose sides between the USF and WCA, what a massive shit show. Now that I'm thinking about it there's a huge potential for war over this.

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u/dlpheonix 1d ago

No potential imo. Just guarenteed civil war. Again. For similar reasons to the first honestly.

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u/EitherSpite4545 1d ago

Then tell red states to behave and not go full fascist.

Fuck this "Shouldn't have worn revealing clothing"-esque victim blaming.

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u/confirmedshill123 1d ago

They are already isolated and we're already divided.

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u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

It can get much worse. Right now we're more weakened than divided. People need to wake up and realize that part of the reason things look bleak is increased division. Pushing further into division will not make our situation brighter. That's only something that adversaries like Russia and China would benefit from.

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u/MasterChildhood437 1d ago

I imagine Canada, California, and the East Coast would be allied. Rather than divided, we'd have them surrounded!

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u/SCViper 1d ago

There's a lot of military in California and the East Coast. A lot more than people think. Plus, we provide most of the money. It would make us a lot stronger, honestly. California and the NE can easily, and successfully, defend themselves if it really came down to it...plus, we provide most of the Federal Budget.

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u/YusukeKomiya 1d ago

The assumption that military based in California and the East Coast would go along with secession is foolish at best. The average voting pattern of the military definitely skews right. Any military base will just see themselves as surrounded by a bunch of rebels. The Civil War more or less laid it out that secession will not be accepted. Considering how the average citizen of either of those places aren't really into guns, you won't really have a home grown basis for resistance.