r/politics • u/sweatycat New York • 1d ago

California to Negotiate Trade With Other Countries to Bypass Trump Tariffs

https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414
92.0k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

6.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

2.7k

u/airemy_lin 1d ago

The stepping stones for American balkanization.

141

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

American balkanization is horrible idea for American's FYI.

157

u/Zanhana California 1d ago

as a Californian I'm sick of subsidizing a couple dozen quasi-theocratic pariah states with my tax dollars, so

11

u/WhyLater 1d ago

If it makes you feel any better, none of that money goes to our schools! So...!

13

u/Reiver_Neriah 1d ago

That probably makes them feel worse lol

6

u/WhyLater 1d ago

Yeahhhh, I knowwww....

4

u/AKSupplyLife 19h ago

Exactly how I feel to. It's way past time to cut the idiots loose. My fear is they'll become a violent failed neighbor state.

•

u/Shmohemian 2h ago edited 2h ago

California is like a frat kid at some C-teir party school, who gets A’s in his business classes because he’s the only one who doesn’t show up hung over. So now he thinks he’s a genius, and is oblivious to the fact that he only got his internship because the 2.3 GPA frat President’s dad owns the company. 

In short, this would really be cutting of your nose to spite your face.

202

u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

For many, yes. Because California and the east coast bankroll them. However, for the east coast and California, it’s likely a smart move. I’d totally vote to go along with California if it were offered to the western and rocky states minus Utah.

7

u/mmf9194 New York 1d ago

God that'd be great. All for that.

7

u/DoubleSuccessor 1d ago

The Blue states would need enough WMDs stay unconquered after, either kept from the US or newly built.

2

u/Absurdkale 1d ago

Washington has the other half of the boomers fleet and a fuck ton of stored nukes.

1

u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

True. I mean, a lot of Texas waterlines run through my state of New Mexico. Probably wouldn’t take that much fentanyl to OD Lubbock and Amarillo via their morning coffee or their kids brushing their teeth, if they invaded.

1

u/DoubleSuccessor 1d ago

Massachusetts has a lot of weapons industries and MIT has a nuclear lab. Wouldn't be shocking if it was being considered already in a dark room somewhere in the state house.

8

u/absentbird Washington 1d ago

California + Oregon + Washington alliance, take the Pacific away from the fascist union. Hawaii and Alaska can come too.

41

u/shofmon88 Australia 1d ago

You’d be better off with Utah over Idaho. 

24

u/travelingAllTheTime 1d ago edited 1d ago

Would rather not have a state run by a cult join.

That's what we are trying to get away from, Religious Fascism.

E: I mean both of them.

10

u/The_Autarch 1d ago

Idaho is also currently run by a cult.

10

u/shofmon88 Australia 1d ago

Idaho is far more radical than Utah, but the comment I responded to said take all of the western states except Utah, so I proposed a trade, going off the premise only one wouldn’t be joining. 

However, to be fair, I imagine that the OP simply forgot Idaho existed. Easy mistake. 

11

u/bob721 1d ago

More Mormons in Idaho than in Utah, sadly

4

u/Zanhana California 1d ago

I'd rather leave behind both

3

u/termanader Wisconsin 1d ago

If we are talking about a hypothetical balkanization of America, Utah would probably join up with Cascadia or the Redoubt state over California.

5

u/iPinch89 1d ago

Hey! Save me too!

-blue dude in UT

8

u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

Only if you dispose of the cult.

3

u/iPinch89 1d ago

Help me, Guilty-Shoulder, you're our only hope.

2

u/btmoose 1d ago

It never ceases to amaze me how the Donner party went through the area in 1846 and showed what a stupid fucking idea it was to try to get to California that way because SLC has the Wasatch Mountains on one side and the Great Salt Lake Desert on the other. Going that way was the fuckup that cost so many of them their lives. 

Then a year later, the Mormons got there and Brigham Young declared it home sweet home because they’d been run out of everywhere else. 

1

u/MasterChildhood437 1d ago

I mean, just the one dude can be refugeed, can't he? Not a cult if it's just him.

1

u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

True, but that cult existing brings up images of Bioshock Infinite and Utah becoming a regional pain in the ass since their religion encompasses a fucked up sense of Americana with an extremely racist past

5

u/External-Tiger-393 1d ago

Do you know how much violence and instability (which adds to violence but also creates social and economic crises) that balkanization has? It's probably the worst thing that could happen as a result of this presidency. Balkanization isn't peaceful, it's horrifying, and it should scare you.

I'd love if California could peacefully secede from the union and maybe bring Washington, Colorado and Oregon with it -- but let's be honest, that can't happen. And an armed secession only works (historically speaking) with backing from a foreign power, and I don't think we're gonna get the same deal that the revolutionary Americans got with France where they got funding, supplies and troops without giving up independence or power.

For example, neither Canada nor Mexico has any reason to back a secession effort; any country that does is probably hostile to both us and the US as a whole. It's not great.

Technically the corridor I just mentioned could join Canada, if they wanted us... But then we'd make the majority of Canada's population, which isn't a great deal for a democracy.

However, I'd love to see a real life New California Republic. Because I live in California now, and the state flag looks so fucking wrong when the bear has only one head.

9

u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

There’s no doubt it’d be violent, but empires only last around 250 years before a reset is needed and right now, this nation and its leaders are not in the position to make that reset happen especially when you have a cabal of ultra wealthy individuals, with foreign backings, trying to consolidate wealth while tech bros are creaming themselves over the possibility of cyberpunk 2077 style, neofeudal states they think they have the power to manifest.

Division is inevitable at this point. I don’t really see any other path forward as long as the current state system and its senate continue to exist.

6

u/Papayaslice636 1d ago

Balkanization in the US is unthinkable, I can't begin to imagine the logistics and consequences. The thought sure sounds nice on paper but thinking it through...does CA get to keep the nukes in the state? Whats to guarantee the US won't invade the same way Russia just invaded Ukraine? What about the naval bases in SD and SF? What about the 1000+ mile unsecured border with the rest of the country? USA is too big to fail...idk how to move forward...

5

u/baked_couch_potato 1d ago

that violent secession is the only way California is not under the heel of a trumpian empire a decade from now

America is over, dude. so it's either balkanization in which the non fascist states form their own coalitions or every state ends up like Florida and Texas and Ohio and all the other states going out of their way to kill trans people, deport brown people, and let women bleed to death in hospital parking lots

4

u/usmclvsop America 1d ago

You’re assuming California remains being controlled by people you agree with in the aftermath. That’s not a guarantee. musk could decide he wants to be king of Cali and hire millions of mercenaries to control the state. Maybe it means bioterrorism with weapons provided by Russia. It’s dangerous to assume the right side will come out on top.

1

u/Absurdkale 1d ago

The right side is already not on top.

The better solution is one that will keep our country together clearly. But I think current events has shredded any notion more than a third of this country can vote beyond "hur hur, commie liberals, hur hur"

We're at a point where political norms and institutions that have kept this country together despite turmoil and partisan bullshit have been shattered in a matter of mere months.

I'm not saying I want balkanization, because it would ultimately be risky and likely violent, but also I don't hold out hope we come back from this as a unified country aymore.

-1

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

1

u/usmclvsop America 1d ago

Oh this same comment by another username…hi bot!

6

u/KlicknKlack 1d ago

its not though, does no one teach or read the federalist papers anymore?

9

u/Zanhana California 1d ago edited 1d ago

lmao yeah I'm sure the Founding Fathers [insert the world's biggest jackoff motion] were really worried about Spanish territory in California leaving the U.S. 250 years later

(also, remind me why anyone should give a fuck what those slaveowners thought?)

0

u/wyomingTFknott 1d ago

Yeah well the USD wasn't a fiat currency then either. Doesn't mean it wouldn't collapse if our country broke up.

3

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 22h ago

[deleted]

2

u/KlicknKlack 1d ago

because of the content and wisdom within them? You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. A lot of the points still stand as quite valid reasons for a strong central government. But yeah, current shit needs some rework - which was the point

1

u/BoogieOrBogey 1d ago

Texas is the major energy provider for the entire country, and is the fastest growing economy of all the states. States like Alabama and Florida have critical NASA infrastructure that can't be replaced. Balkanization would seriously damage every state. Our Union does make us stronger, as long as we can keep it.

As much as people act like Cali could succeed and do better, they really can't. Their economy is built upon the union of other states.

3

u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 1d ago

Yeah, and the natural resource curse shows with Texas and the massive disparity in quality of life. I’m sorry, but the amount of your population living in campers, because they have to, is deplorable.

And it’s kinda cringe how half of you will scream for Texas independence and then talk about “unity” the moment your local government’s dysfunction reaches the Federal Government.

1

u/BoogieOrBogey 1d ago

I'm from Florida and live in Maryland dude, chill out. Personal attacks on a strawman doesn't invalidate my comment.

I'm not saying that any of the Southern States are paradigms of good places to live. There are many reasons my family left Florida and never moved back. But acting like Cali is self-sufficient is wrong. All 50 states rely on the others, and that interconnectivity is what made the US such a powerful economy and country.

1

u/BengalsGonnaBungle 1d ago

Their economy is built upon the union of other states.

That union is dead regardless of what California does.

1

u/BoogieOrBogey 1d ago

That's pretty doomer mentality. The US struggled through a full on Civil War to maintain the Union. Don't act like it's all over because the stock market is crashing.

-3

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

It's not a smart move for California and the East Coast. Division and isolation is trap that always makes you weaker.

23

u/-GoBills- 1d ago

They would immediately align their interests with Canada, the EU, and the rest of the sane world.

Republicans are hell bent on division and isolation, let them have it in their garbage red states.

-7

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

Don't fall for the trap. One of the reasons that Republican politicians are so dangerous is that they push division. Division is not a solution. It's a threat. Don't fall into the same trap as Republicans.

11

u/-GoBills- 1d ago

That's about as useful as saying "Being cut is bad so it's better to let the cancer spread than have surgery".

Republican politicians are so dangerous is that they push division

They're dangerous because a huge voter base comprised of proudly ignorant, racist, and morally bankrupt individuals let them do anything they want without any scrutiny or self-reflection.

You can try and reach across the aisle all you want, it doesn't work with fascists and theocrats who think they have divine permission from god to be horrible human beings. Maybe if they had the capacity to be ashamed we wouldn't be in this mess, but we've been far too tolerant for far too long.

10

u/EitherSpite4545 1d ago

These people are never going to learn to behave like civilized people, there is nothing to come together with them. It's time to cut the cancer off.

3

u/Malaix 1d ago

They push division between groups of people within the country. They want us bitter but trapped and in this corpse nation while they loot us. Other nations have good qualities of life without being a continent spanning empire.

I’d rather have the north east free to pursue that better life than constantly being pulled by and dragged down by the regressive south and Midwest.

-2

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

Other nations have largely been at the whim of the US lately. Integration makes societies wealthy and safe through reduced conflict and increased cooperation. Individualist/isolationist mentalities breed more conflict.

1

u/Malaix 1d ago

Which is why I support secession to join in closer bonds with NATO, Canada, the EU, the UN, the ICC, the WHO, and others. The red states all want to isolate from that like s bunch of bitter hermits and live under a dictator who says enslaving women and eliminating brown and LGBTQ people is the future.

0

u/MissionCreeper 1d ago

If someone in the backseat tells my passenger to grab the wheel and drive us off a cliff, I dont care if thats the fault of the backseat guy- Im kicking the passenger out of the moving car to save myself.

16

u/WookieMonsta 1d ago

Well our country is already so divided, at this point it might not be a horrible idea for the coasts to be “weaker” but also able to engage in free trade, cut ties with Trump, and save face in the global theater. Like right now the US is broadly implementing isolationist policies which will make its whole weaker and bring an end to US hegemony, so it could be viewed as a matter of figuring who to align with and whether they want to go down with the ship.

13

u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc 1d ago

It could be the start of the fracturing of America. If this actually happens the West Coast alliance will have to have a governing body for trade and commercial purposes. That could transform into a general governing body that could eventually challenge the fascist part of the US.

Better start planning your move to Cali.

-4

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

People need to wake up and realize that part of the reason things look bleak is increased division. Pushing further into division will not make our situation brighter. That's only something that adversaries like Russia and China would benefit from.

6

u/Zanhana California 1d ago

that's a 2012 ass "look at this bad political polarization" take. sorry but I fucking want to be divided from the theocrats and fascists

4

u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc 1d ago

I don't think it will benefit them if the economic part of America shuns fascism in favor of forming a new alliance. That's because this new alliance could replace the US in world trade, California has enough economic power to keep the US dollar stable by itself. The world wouldn't feel pressured to change to some other currency, just pressured to not trade with the old America. Russia and China might gain the short term but if it all worked out the West Coast alliance would be a world powerhouse as well. Imagine every military base in the world having to choose sides between the USF and WCA, what a massive shit show. Now that I'm thinking about it there's a huge potential for war over this.

2

u/dlpheonix 1d ago

No potential imo. Just guarenteed civil war. Again. For similar reasons to the first honestly.

8

u/EitherSpite4545 1d ago

Then tell red states to behave and not go full fascist.

Fuck this "Shouldn't have worn revealing clothing"-esque victim blaming.

6

u/confirmedshill123 1d ago

They are already isolated and we're already divided.

2

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

It can get much worse. Right now we're more weakened than divided. People need to wake up and realize that part of the reason things look bleak is increased division. Pushing further into division will not make our situation brighter. That's only something that adversaries like Russia and China would benefit from.

2

u/MasterChildhood437 1d ago

I imagine Canada, California, and the East Coast would be allied. Rather than divided, we'd have them surrounded!

3

u/SCViper 1d ago

There's a lot of military in California and the East Coast. A lot more than people think. Plus, we provide most of the money. It would make us a lot stronger, honestly. California and the NE can easily, and successfully, defend themselves if it really came down to it...plus, we provide most of the Federal Budget.

1

u/YusukeKomiya 1d ago

The assumption that military based in California and the East Coast would go along with secession is foolish at best. The average voting pattern of the military definitely skews right. Any military base will just see themselves as surrounded by a bunch of rebels. The Civil War more or less laid it out that secession will not be accepted. Considering how the average citizen of either of those places aren't really into guns, you won't really have a home grown basis for resistance.

11

u/BackgroundEase6255 1d ago

Yes, because the current system of flipflopping between Democrats and Republicans and having half the country with a 4th grade literacy vote for fascists is a really, really good system.

America is over. I am embracing the balkanization. I don't want to help those that keep hurting my loved ones, the red states can handle their own affairs.

28

u/Dances_With_Cheese 1d ago

It is but we’re surrounded by horrible ideas. If I had to pick between being part of a smaller, weaker country or part of a country that invades Canada and Greenland the choice is easy.

5

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's highly unlikely for the US to actually invade Canada, and if it did it has nowhere near the political support needed to pull it off. There would be riots in the street. Politicians would be voted out for any support. Almost nobody in the US wants a war on their doorstep with Canada.

10

u/Dances_With_Cheese 1d ago

I didn’t say it would be successful or popular or winnable. I agree with almost everything you said except that nothing is highly unlikely anymore.

4

u/ashymatina Canada 1d ago

I honestly don’t think that’s the case. I’ve been hearing “oh that will never happen, there’d be riots in the street” about hundreds of things in regards to your guys country and this administration for years now, and guess what? No riots.

The time to start rioting and revolting has long passed. At this point it seems clear the majority of your country is far too passive and adverse to any discomfort to actually revolt, and I don’t buy for a minute that trump would be stopped by the American people from invading us. I’m pretty tired of Americans treating genuine threats to our sovereignty as a joke or impossibility, when he’s done every tbh but he’s said be was going to so far. Here in Canada we’re treating it like a real fucking threat and we will fight.

2

u/SgtMcMuffin0 1d ago

I agree with everything you just said, but I thought the same thing about multiple things that have already happened.

2

u/yoLeaveMeAlone 1d ago

You say these things are unpopular and would result in riots in the streets at the same time as our president is saying he wants to do those things...

2

u/BengalsGonnaBungle 1d ago

It's highly unlikely for the US to actually invade Canada

It's not unlikely at all, especially once trump's tariffs destroy the economy and we head into a depression.

12

u/bryan-healey 1d ago

which Americans?

would be outstanding for the west coast and the northeast.

0

u/Chubaichaser 23h ago

There are more Republican voters (and therefore possible insurgents and combatants) in California than exist in Texas. 

I say this as a leftie in a deep red state - don't ask for the smoke when it means a repeat of the partition of India/Pakistan with way more guns. 

1

u/rolfraikou 20h ago

Is it fucked up that I'm less afraid of that than what republicans are planning for the US?

With the track the US is on, I expect anyone who is center to left to end up in a prison camp within the next 10 years.

12

u/Lurking_nerd California 1d ago

And sticking with this broken ass system is a better alternative? Fuck that. Like MTG said, time for a national divorce. Republicans, MAGA, and the right have shit talked California for decades while taking our tax dollars. Fuck them. We’ll do our own thing.

0

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

Don't fall for the trap. One of the reasons that Republican politicians are so dangerous is that they push division. Division is not a solution. It's a threat. Don't fall into the very trap as Republicans.

9

u/yoLeaveMeAlone 1d ago

I'm sorry but this type of rhetoric is a slap in the face to the immigrants and queer Americans that are under attack and having rights stripped away by this administration, and facing hate crimes by the people that voted for these politicians. They are actively spewing hate about real people, deporting them, taking away their rights, and demonizing them. And then when those marginalized groups respond some privileged people have the balls to criticize the marginalized groups by saying "don't fall for their trap"... Motherfucker their rights are under attack. Lying down and taking it is not a good answer.

0

u/zzazzzz 1d ago

destroying your nation by ripping it apart will not lead to a better future for these ppl..

3

u/Kanin_usagi 1d ago

Especially because so many of those people live in red states, and have absolutely no way to change that (trust me I would if I could)

5

u/yoLeaveMeAlone 1d ago

Well when resistance is painted as "giving in to division" and then demonized as bad what exactly are they to do? Submit to an oppressive regime of fascism because resisting isn't guarenteed to help them?

-2

u/zzazzzz 1d ago

it isnt painted as anything. thats what it is.

not enforcing the tariffs is the same as not paying federal taxes. with california being the strongest economy this means a massive loss of tax income for the fed.

how do you think the fed will react when you break the constitution and withhold tax?

unless you are prepared to fully secceed this will invite the fed to impose martial law and take over the state and install whoever they want.

and no noone is saying just lay down and take it. but do so without self immolating..

3

u/yoLeaveMeAlone 1d ago

and no noone is saying just lay down and take it. but do so without self immolating..

If that's your take then try offering alternative methods of resistance, instead of just criticizing those willing to try and telling them to stop. How do you expect people to resist the destruction of our economy without trying to circumvent the forces destroying our economy?

The federal government is literally tanking the economy and your complaining about people fighting back because it could hurt the economy... It's already fucking crashing... It's the feds fault.

-2

u/zzazzzz 1d ago

it isnt a take.. its reality. and if you think that path will lead you anywhere positive you go ahead.

and thew alternative is to take legal paths instead of illegal. same way as your every day life. or do you choose illegal paths in your life genreally and expect positive outcomes?

3

u/yoLeaveMeAlone 1d ago

do you choose illegal paths in your life genreally and expect positive outcomes?

When the law is unjust and negative, YES. I'm a part of a church community that has broken the law to host a homeless encampment that was "illegal" according to local ordinances. We helped people, housed them and fed them despite it being illegal. The law is not infallible when the people in charge of enforcing it are fascists.

I'll ask again. What alternative is there to fight back against the federal government actively destroying our economy. How do you expect to resist a fascist takeover when your advice is "only do things the fascists tell you are OK"?

→ More replies (0)

4

u/Malaix 1d ago

It literally can if the alternative is letting red state troopers and red state federal policy destroy their rights and lives.

1

u/rolfraikou 20h ago

Look at what our nation has turned into.

6

u/goblintacos 1d ago

Better than sticking with admiral fat orange fuck

3

u/JustaBearEnthusiast 1d ago

But a great idea for the global south. 🤞

2

u/Zanhana California 1d ago

JDPON Don strikes again

3

u/Acceptable_Buy177 1d ago

New England, New York/ New Jersey, California, and Texas would all be better off independent. It’s the other states that need them not the other way around.

When America inevitably (I’m talking as a matter of long-term history) collapses those regions are likely to be the ones fighting over the rest. Don’t think it will happen in my lifetime, but who knows?

10

u/Dellato88 Michigan 1d ago

It is but I welcome it.

Never going to happen though so its moot to discuss it

7

u/Uncertain_Ty 1d ago

it is unless you're a donor state

-4

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

No. People are stronger together. Isolationism is a trap.

10

u/BoxOfDust 1d ago

When half of the country wants to move towards isolationism anyways, then what's the actual choice here? Stick together as a whole country in isolation? Or try to reach back out to the global world?

I don't disagree that an actually fractured America is a bad thing, but asking how independent the states should act at this point are very valid questions to ask at this point. Finding the point in the spectrum of staying whole as a country, but individual states form international trade agreements, seems thus far a moderately acceptable choice.

-1

u/zzazzzz 1d ago

by going solo on trade you invite the feds to come and take over. or doyou really think they will just let that happen? do you really think trump will accept getting spat in the face? this is playing with an armed land mine. and there will be no winner only more losers.

3

u/BoxOfDust 1d ago

Trying to carve a path out of historically proven economic trouble, vs just sitting down and accepting the loss? States governments have their own responsibilities to protect the interests of their own constituents as well, don't they?

Yeah, I'd take the gamble.

1

u/zzazzzz 1d ago

its not a gamble, its putting yourself against the wall and telling trump to shoot.

1

u/BoxOfDust 1d ago

Which he's already done with the tariffs anyways.

1

u/zzazzzz 1d ago

at least you still have your state govt being able to write state laws and policy. if you go thru with this the fed will take over and install whoever they want to lead ca. and how do you think they will shape policy?

2

u/Malaix 1d ago

Red state voters are like people bitten by zombies. In which conditions it is not actually beneficial to have them in your camp.

0

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

I completely disagree. Embracing isolation is embracing a world of conflict. You'll note that historically ages of conflict are never considered golden ages. The sooner that people can find their way back to unification the better for everyone. The key is to not abandon diplomacy. Work through the issues by outreach and engagement rather than retreating to to individualism.

2

u/Malaix 1d ago

Only way I’d completely accept being bound to the south is if they agree to fulfill reconstruction and surrender their congressional seats until it’s complete. They can’t handle such responsibilities in their current form.

I assume that’s unacceptable to them so dissolution is the middle ground between me and them at this point. I’m not isolationist. I’m the opposite. I’m eager to reach out to sane countries and build relationships to accomplish common goals for the greater good of humanity.

I just think red state voters are suicidally stupid and I’m tired of losing rights and money because I’m expected to be the electoral jailers for people who want me dead.

2

u/Drain01 1d ago

Half of the country actively thinks of me as the enemy. I already am trapped, balkanization may be the key to find safety.

1

u/Nihilistic_Mystics California 1d ago

Right now we have an orange anchor tied to us and we're drowning. In staying as we are, I see no other outcome than economic destruction. So our options are to do nothing and wait for our inevitable destruction or try to do something about it. I'm not going to give up and die as you propose. Leaving is our only chance at saving some people.

1

u/Summer_Chronicle8184 1d ago

We're doing isolationism right fucking now

I can guarantee an independent west coast is a more outward looking and international place than the US as a whole - not even considering the fact that we wouldn't install insane tariffs

0

u/rolfraikou 20h ago

People can't be together. One small group is in charge of everything.

The laws/courts, the military, the politicians have let them take control of the whole thing.

2

u/placentapills 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's really only true for the flyovers and the bible belt (sans TX). The east coast, west coast and the states bordering Canada will be fine.

2

u/A_Flock_of_Clams 1d ago

The US is fucked no matter what.

4

u/TheDawnOfShe 1d ago

For the ones left behind maybe. But hey California is a shit covered state anyways right? I'm sure Alabama will be FINE.

1

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

No, it would be bad for California too. California benefits from the union, despite propaganda trying to convince people otherwise. You can kind of think about it like the trade situation happening. Right now you sound like Trump, saying "they've been ripping us off for decades."

5

u/BatManatee 1d ago

I mean... they literally have. California is the biggest donor state by far in total numbers, and I think 4th going per capita. We also get some of the least amount of federal representation per capital by far. So we get far fewer votes as to how our tax money is spent, then it goes primarily to red states who spend all day every day talking shit about us.

We are, by pretty much any metric, getting the worst part of the deal in the US.

Balkanization would also be terrible, don't get me wrong. But we literally are also being "ripped off".

3

u/Seraphynas Washington 1d ago

It’s best case scenario, at this point.

It’s better than the theocratic oligarchy and their “divine rights for rich dudes”. It is also better than outright secession or civil war.

2

u/FawkYourself 1d ago

Yeah Reddit is going to celebrate this but this is pretty scary. The American Union falling apart is not good for America or anyone else in the world. A super power like the United States falling apart at the seams would have widespread consequences

2

u/Malaix 1d ago

Accelerationism won. I’ve accepted that. The American people will suffer immensely in the coming years. We may even be in the start of a neo-dark age.

It’s time to prepare for that inevitability.

1

u/rolfraikou 20h ago

At the pace we are going, the US, the world's most powerful military, is about to be used to take over other countries by force. If it were balkanized, it would be weaker. Imagine if Germany had split into 5 and Hitler was left with only a fifth of his resources? Millions of people would have been saved.

0

u/EitherSpite4545 1d ago

We're not a super power anymore, Trump stopped that, we can either divorce and stem the blaming or become west Iran.

2

u/DodgyHedgehog 1d ago

American balkanization is horrible idea for American's

The trouble is that everything else is a horrible idea. The question is whether it's worse than the other likely options.

A year ago I would have said it absolutely is worse, but now I'm not so sure.

1

u/Dick_Wienerpenis 1d ago

Our FYI will be fine.

1

u/toxic_badgers Colorado 1d ago

Its a russian psy op.

1

u/rolfraikou 19h ago

Yes. And right now owns the US political system.

Right now Russia is doing everything it can to remove the influence of the US super-power.

If it balkanizes, it doesn't have that gigantic military, and the incentive to control it is reduced.

I'd rather see some states thrive than everyone get sent to the fucking gulag.

1

u/DefinitelyNotAj 1d ago

Yeah it would be a logistical nightmare.

2

u/kittenTakeover 1d ago

More than that, it would be a cultural disaster. Fighting division with more division is a losing strategy.

1

u/Divan001 1d ago

It used to be. Now that America isn’t the world hegemony, there is no reason why the west and east coast should be burdened with the south and midwest. Trump broke America. I’m not going to let my state be raped economically because of what red states voted for. Republicans broke the social contract and ended what made America a worthwhile experiment.

2

u/ForensicPathology 1d ago

It would be interesting at least.  If the new Union is successful and the old one deteriorates, the new one might even let the old ones apply back in (like the EU) after making sure they follow certain rules for entry. 

Presumably the new one already starts with a more modern system of electing government.