r/politics • u/sweatycat New York • 19h ago

California to Negotiate Trade With Other Countries to Bypass Trump Tariffs

https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414
88.8k Upvotes

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2.7k

u/airemy_lin 19h ago

The stepping stones for American balkanization.

931

u/[deleted] 19h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

586

u/schwanzweissfoto 19h ago

Step two…

[ Removed by Reddit ]

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/PeppermintButthole 17h ago

I think that American culture is far too deeply entrenched in the MAGA mindset that the only way to truly fix it is for this horrible thing to run its course and end up causing whatever devastation it's gonna cause, because I don't think they'll learn otherwise.

However, I do think that [Removed by Reddit] could only be a positive thing.

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u/BirchSlapper 18h ago

You’d need to [Removed by Reddit] a few steps down the line for any real change.

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u/Rough_Bread8329 Canada 18h ago

What better place than here? What better time than now?

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u/hell2pay California 16h ago

All... Hell.. Can't stop us now!

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u/ohnopoopedpants 17h ago

Doesn't need to be by one character. This is a traitor. This is someone trying to destroy the entire west, because Putin has the golden shower video of him

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u/FLU_COUGH_AND_COLD 15h ago

In 2009 the term “grass mud horse” emerged on the Chinese internet. 

The purpose of the term “grass-mud horse” (草泥马, pronounced “cǎo ní mǎ”)  was to circumvent censorship. It’s a homophone for a vulgar phrase. The “grass-mud horse” is depicted as a mythical alpaca-like creature and has become a symbol of resistance against internet censorship in China.

And here we are today  

5

u/Ozymandias0023 Nevada 15h ago

To be fair, talking about [Removed by Reddit] wouldn't be a great idea under any administration. At the very least you're asking for a visit from the Female Body Inspectors

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u/pudding7 19h ago

Yup.  

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u/UpperApe 18h ago

Reddit Admins: "Guys please play nice."

Reddit: "What about the nazis on here?"

Reddit Admins: "Guys please play nice with the nazis on here."

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u/yeaheyeah 17h ago

"The nazis just told me to kill myself, have doxxed me, and are closing in on my position "

Admins: no rules have been broken

Reddit: " I don't like nazis"

Admins: [removed by reddit]

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u/njm123niu 18h ago

I got TWO temporary suspensions for saying derogatory things about Nazis, on different subs no less.

13

u/Datdarnpupper United Kingdom 18h ago

I've been banned from most of the UK subreddits for calling out extreme right talking points a little too rudley. Its insane how tightly a small group of people on here control the narrative

•

u/SimpleAsEndOf 5h ago

It's insane

I'll take an educated guess. Read the mods' comments and you may find most are extremist zionists, full of hasbara propaganda with lies/paranoia/hate/gaslighting/DARVO/doublespeak/projection/Islamophobia/transphobia etc etc.

And these are the exact same arguments used by Nazis/Fascists/Nationalists/MAGA/ supporters of Bolsanaro/Modi/Orban/Meloni/lePen/Trump/Farage/Milie/Netenyahu etc etc.

It hurts when you put there Fascist ideas down.

If you google the Shared Trump Psychosis article by Scientific American, you can attack them Scientifically/through Psychiatry because Fascists have fallen for 3 right wing media ingredients - Lies and Fear and Hate.

Those lead to Delusions and Paranoias and Anger/Violence.

This combination is called Fascist Psychosis. This applies to Nazis/Zionists/Modi Fascists/MAGA/QANON etc - all of them.

UK modz get angry when they're told the truth. Do they ban ppl for supporting Gaza/against genocide?

3

u/Ozymandias0023 Nevada 15h ago

Really? What did you say? So I know I definitely shouldn't go to those same subreddits and say the same thing. And we DEFINITELY shouldn't all go do the same

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u/trueAnnoi 15h ago

Fuck Nazis. The only good one is a dead one. Go out and punch a local Nazi today!!!

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u/binzoma Canada 18h ago

dont forget we all know what side reddits on

they make and sustain the echo chambers

4

u/marr 18h ago

I wish you were joking.

2

u/viviolay 16h ago

Actually tho, I got a comment removed by Reddit and I can’t even check what it was but I know I didn’t threaten violence. Meanwhile, I report a comment for using the n-word with the hard r and reddit and the mods of the sub said they were using it as an example/wasn’t again the rules.

so yea, fuck Reddit admin

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u/Horror_Yam_9078 18h ago

Last time I posted a real step two I got a 3 day ban, so yeah.

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u/FrankoAleman 17h ago

[ Removed by Reddit ] the rich!

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u/eclectic_tastes Ohio 18h ago

Please refrain from posting anything about the Nintendo extended universe on here. Now back to posting about Elon Musk…

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u/Slitherygnu3 18h ago

Step three: ???

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u/Koraboros 17h ago

I'm sure if there's a post on r/AskReddit that asks "If that person dies today would you celebrate", it would be overwhelming yes.

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u/Anna_Frican 15h ago

So that's who removed Archduke Ferdinand! It was Reddit all along!

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u/tcguy71 19h ago

Step three...

We steal the declaration of independence

13

u/arwinda 19h ago

Where is Benjamin Franklin Gates when his country needs him. He's Spider-Man now!

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u/DeepestShallows 19h ago

Gosh, you just could just not make that second movie now

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u/dunwoodyres1 18h ago

Step four…

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u/4materasu92 United Kingdom 16h ago

Unleash the horde!

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u/Initial_E 17h ago

Frankly you guys need to negotiate a new constitution anyway

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u/webesy 19h ago

Putin must be like “holy fuck, lol”

3

u/CelticSith I voted 19h ago

Got some news for you that's either going to make you happy or very upset

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u/quacainia 18h ago

Step two…

We assimilate Artichoke Farmland.

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u/Mekisteus 18h ago

The real guy is already dead, but we could execute Franz Ferdinand the band, I suppose. I don't have anything against them but tradition dictates, so...

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u/THSSFC America 19h ago

Some bloke called "Archie Duke" shot an ostrich because 'e was hungry.

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u/GroguIsMyBrogu 18h ago

A little late for that, but Franz Ferdinand the band is still around...

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u/TheGrimTickler 18h ago

I have some bad news

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u/cap_oupascap 18h ago

Maybe that was Bryan Thompson

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u/BigLittlePenguin_ 18h ago

You guys got one of those left? Last I heard they all lost their titles.

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u/intheyear3001 California 16h ago

Sic Semper Tyrannis.

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u/RedheadsAreBeautiful 15h ago

I often said how much Trump reminded me of Ferdinand.

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u/thehalfwit Nevada 15h ago

He deserves it for his choice of hat wear.

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u/Tropicaldaze1950 15h ago

Hit him up with an antipsychotic injection, helicopter him to the psych unit at Walter Reed, J.D. invokes the 25A . No love of Vance. He's a dick sucking fascist but Trump will be out of the way.

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u/Jumpy-Coffee-Cat 19h ago

At this point I might be for it… except I’m in the wrong region

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u/gatsby712 19h ago

It’s the one thing that might get me to move to the right region. 

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u/Rickbox 19h ago

left region.

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u/Jericho5589 18h ago

California should extend an invite to New England. We're down to clown.

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u/WarmWoolenMitten 17h ago

Except for my fucking backwards state. Live free or die my ass.

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u/nanana_catdad 11h ago

My sentiment exactly.

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u/BeefistPrime 18h ago

you're right, but honestly, it's probably for the best. better than our lives being controlled by these morons. I'd let the the whole south go. Let them have their Christian Iran. Let them see what happens when the blue states stop subsidizing them and saving them from their worst desires.

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u/InSummaryOfWhatIAm 5h ago

In one way, hell yeah that sounds like the right idea. Then when the people/evangelicals in the red states actually form Y'all-Qaeda and start sending terrorist bombers over the state borders to wage holy war on the ungodly liberals, it kinda stops being fun.

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u/kittenTakeover 19h ago

American balkanization is horrible idea for American's FYI.

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u/Zanhana California 19h ago

as a Californian I'm sick of subsidizing a couple dozen quasi-theocratic pariah states with my tax dollars, so

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u/WhyLater 16h ago

If it makes you feel any better, none of that money goes to our schools! So...!

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u/Reiver_Neriah 15h ago

That probably makes them feel worse lol

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u/WhyLater 15h ago

Yeahhhh, I knowwww....

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u/AKSupplyLife 6h ago

Exactly how I feel to. It's way past time to cut the idiots loose. My fear is they'll become a violent failed neighbor state.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 19h ago

For many, yes. Because California and the east coast bankroll them. However, for the east coast and California, it’s likely a smart move. I’d totally vote to go along with California if it were offered to the western and rocky states minus Utah.

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u/mmf9194 New York 18h ago

God that'd be great. All for that.

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u/DoubleSuccessor 18h ago

The Blue states would need enough WMDs stay unconquered after, either kept from the US or newly built.

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u/Absurdkale 14h ago

Washington has the other half of the boomers fleet and a fuck ton of stored nukes.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 17h ago

True. I mean, a lot of Texas waterlines run through my state of New Mexico. Probably wouldn’t take that much fentanyl to OD Lubbock and Amarillo via their morning coffee or their kids brushing their teeth, if they invaded.

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u/DoubleSuccessor 16h ago

Massachusetts has a lot of weapons industries and MIT has a nuclear lab. Wouldn't be shocking if it was being considered already in a dark room somewhere in the state house.

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u/absentbird Washington 18h ago

California + Oregon + Washington alliance, take the Pacific away from the fascist union. Hawaii and Alaska can come too.

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u/shofmon88 Australia 19h ago

You’d be better off with Utah over Idaho. 

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u/travelingAllTheTime 18h ago edited 18h ago

Would rather not have a state run by a cult join.

That's what we are trying to get away from, Religious Fascism.

E: I mean both of them.

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u/The_Autarch 18h ago

Idaho is also currently run by a cult.

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u/shofmon88 Australia 18h ago

Idaho is far more radical than Utah, but the comment I responded to said take all of the western states except Utah, so I proposed a trade, going off the premise only one wouldn’t be joining. 

However, to be fair, I imagine that the OP simply forgot Idaho existed. Easy mistake. 

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u/bob721 18h ago

More Mormons in Idaho than in Utah, sadly

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u/Zanhana California 18h ago

I'd rather leave behind both

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u/termanader Wisconsin 16h ago

If we are talking about a hypothetical balkanization of America, Utah would probably join up with Cascadia or the Redoubt state over California.

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u/iPinch89 19h ago

Hey! Save me too!

-blue dude in UT

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 19h ago

Only if you dispose of the cult.

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u/iPinch89 19h ago

Help me, Guilty-Shoulder, you're our only hope.

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u/btmoose 19h ago

It never ceases to amaze me how the Donner party went through the area in 1846 and showed what a stupid fucking idea it was to try to get to California that way because SLC has the Wasatch Mountains on one side and the Great Salt Lake Desert on the other. Going that way was the fuckup that cost so many of them their lives. 

Then a year later, the Mormons got there and Brigham Young declared it home sweet home because they’d been run out of everywhere else. 

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u/MasterChildhood437 17h ago

I mean, just the one dude can be refugeed, can't he? Not a cult if it's just him.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 16h ago

True, but that cult existing brings up images of Bioshock Infinite and Utah becoming a regional pain in the ass since their religion encompasses a fucked up sense of Americana with an extremely racist past

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u/External-Tiger-393 17h ago

Do you know how much violence and instability (which adds to violence but also creates social and economic crises) that balkanization has? It's probably the worst thing that could happen as a result of this presidency. Balkanization isn't peaceful, it's horrifying, and it should scare you.

I'd love if California could peacefully secede from the union and maybe bring Washington, Colorado and Oregon with it -- but let's be honest, that can't happen. And an armed secession only works (historically speaking) with backing from a foreign power, and I don't think we're gonna get the same deal that the revolutionary Americans got with France where they got funding, supplies and troops without giving up independence or power.

For example, neither Canada nor Mexico has any reason to back a secession effort; any country that does is probably hostile to both us and the US as a whole. It's not great.

Technically the corridor I just mentioned could join Canada, if they wanted us... But then we'd make the majority of Canada's population, which isn't a great deal for a democracy.

However, I'd love to see a real life New California Republic. Because I live in California now, and the state flag looks so fucking wrong when the bear has only one head.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 16h ago

There’s no doubt it’d be violent, but empires only last around 250 years before a reset is needed and right now, this nation and its leaders are not in the position to make that reset happen especially when you have a cabal of ultra wealthy individuals, with foreign backings, trying to consolidate wealth while tech bros are creaming themselves over the possibility of cyberpunk 2077 style, neofeudal states they think they have the power to manifest.

Division is inevitable at this point. I don’t really see any other path forward as long as the current state system and its senate continue to exist.

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u/Papayaslice636 16h ago

Balkanization in the US is unthinkable, I can't begin to imagine the logistics and consequences. The thought sure sounds nice on paper but thinking it through...does CA get to keep the nukes in the state? Whats to guarantee the US won't invade the same way Russia just invaded Ukraine? What about the naval bases in SD and SF? What about the 1000+ mile unsecured border with the rest of the country? USA is too big to fail...idk how to move forward...

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u/baked_couch_potato 16h ago

that violent secession is the only way California is not under the heel of a trumpian empire a decade from now

America is over, dude. so it's either balkanization in which the non fascist states form their own coalitions or every state ends up like Florida and Texas and Ohio and all the other states going out of their way to kill trans people, deport brown people, and let women bleed to death in hospital parking lots

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u/usmclvsop America 14h ago

You’re assuming California remains being controlled by people you agree with in the aftermath. That’s not a guarantee. musk could decide he wants to be king of Cali and hire millions of mercenaries to control the state. Maybe it means bioterrorism with weapons provided by Russia. It’s dangerous to assume the right side will come out on top.

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u/Absurdkale 14h ago

The right side is already not on top.

The better solution is one that will keep our country together clearly. But I think current events has shredded any notion more than a third of this country can vote beyond "hur hur, commie liberals, hur hur"

We're at a point where political norms and institutions that have kept this country together despite turmoil and partisan bullshit have been shattered in a matter of mere months.

I'm not saying I want balkanization, because it would ultimately be risky and likely violent, but also I don't hold out hope we come back from this as a unified country aymore.

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u/KlicknKlack 19h ago

its not though, does no one teach or read the federalist papers anymore?

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u/Zanhana California 18h ago edited 17h ago

lmao yeah I'm sure the Founding Fathers [insert the world's biggest jackoff motion] were really worried about Spanish territory in California leaving the U.S. 250 years later

(also, remind me why anyone should give a fuck what those slaveowners thought?)

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u/[deleted] 16h ago edited 9h ago

[deleted]

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u/KlicknKlack 16h ago

because of the content and wisdom within them? You don't throw the baby out with the bath water. A lot of the points still stand as quite valid reasons for a strong central government. But yeah, current shit needs some rework - which was the point

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u/BoogieOrBogey 16h ago

Texas is the major energy provider for the entire country, and is the fastest growing economy of all the states. States like Alabama and Florida have critical NASA infrastructure that can't be replaced. Balkanization would seriously damage every state. Our Union does make us stronger, as long as we can keep it.

As much as people act like Cali could succeed and do better, they really can't. Their economy is built upon the union of other states.

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u/Guilty-Shoulder-9214 15h ago

Yeah, and the natural resource curse shows with Texas and the massive disparity in quality of life. I’m sorry, but the amount of your population living in campers, because they have to, is deplorable.

And it’s kinda cringe how half of you will scream for Texas independence and then talk about “unity” the moment your local government’s dysfunction reaches the Federal Government.

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u/BoogieOrBogey 14h ago

I'm from Florida and live in Maryland dude, chill out. Personal attacks on a strawman doesn't invalidate my comment.

I'm not saying that any of the Southern States are paradigms of good places to live. There are many reasons my family left Florida and never moved back. But acting like Cali is self-sufficient is wrong. All 50 states rely on the others, and that interconnectivity is what made the US such a powerful economy and country.

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u/BengalsGonnaBungle 13h ago

Their economy is built upon the union of other states.

That union is dead regardless of what California does.

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u/BoogieOrBogey 13h ago

That's pretty doomer mentality. The US struggled through a full on Civil War to maintain the Union. Don't act like it's all over because the stock market is crashing.

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u/kittenTakeover 19h ago

It's not a smart move for California and the East Coast. Division and isolation is trap that always makes you weaker.

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u/-GoBills- 18h ago

They would immediately align their interests with Canada, the EU, and the rest of the sane world.

Republicans are hell bent on division and isolation, let them have it in their garbage red states.

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u/kittenTakeover 18h ago

Don't fall for the trap. One of the reasons that Republican politicians are so dangerous is that they push division. Division is not a solution. It's a threat. Don't fall into the same trap as Republicans.

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u/-GoBills- 18h ago

That's about as useful as saying "Being cut is bad so it's better to let the cancer spread than have surgery".

Republican politicians are so dangerous is that they push division

They're dangerous because a huge voter base comprised of proudly ignorant, racist, and morally bankrupt individuals let them do anything they want without any scrutiny or self-reflection.

You can try and reach across the aisle all you want, it doesn't work with fascists and theocrats who think they have divine permission from god to be horrible human beings. Maybe if they had the capacity to be ashamed we wouldn't be in this mess, but we've been far too tolerant for far too long.

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u/EitherSpite4545 18h ago

These people are never going to learn to behave like civilized people, there is nothing to come together with them. It's time to cut the cancer off.

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u/Malaix 17h ago

They push division between groups of people within the country. They want us bitter but trapped and in this corpse nation while they loot us. Other nations have good qualities of life without being a continent spanning empire.

I’d rather have the north east free to pursue that better life than constantly being pulled by and dragged down by the regressive south and Midwest.

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u/WookieMonsta 19h ago

Well our country is already so divided, at this point it might not be a horrible idea for the coasts to be “weaker” but also able to engage in free trade, cut ties with Trump, and save face in the global theater. Like right now the US is broadly implementing isolationist policies which will make its whole weaker and bring an end to US hegemony, so it could be viewed as a matter of figuring who to align with and whether they want to go down with the ship.

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u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc 18h ago

It could be the start of the fracturing of America. If this actually happens the West Coast alliance will have to have a governing body for trade and commercial purposes. That could transform into a general governing body that could eventually challenge the fascist part of the US.

Better start planning your move to Cali.

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u/kittenTakeover 18h ago

People need to wake up and realize that part of the reason things look bleak is increased division. Pushing further into division will not make our situation brighter. That's only something that adversaries like Russia and China would benefit from.

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u/Zanhana California 18h ago

that's a 2012 ass "look at this bad political polarization" take. sorry but I fucking want to be divided from the theocrats and fascists

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u/LeagueOfLegendsAcc 18h ago

I don't think it will benefit them if the economic part of America shuns fascism in favor of forming a new alliance. That's because this new alliance could replace the US in world trade, California has enough economic power to keep the US dollar stable by itself. The world wouldn't feel pressured to change to some other currency, just pressured to not trade with the old America. Russia and China might gain the short term but if it all worked out the West Coast alliance would be a world powerhouse as well. Imagine every military base in the world having to choose sides between the USF and WCA, what a massive shit show. Now that I'm thinking about it there's a huge potential for war over this.

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u/dlpheonix 16h ago

No potential imo. Just guarenteed civil war. Again. For similar reasons to the first honestly.

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u/EitherSpite4545 18h ago

Then tell red states to behave and not go full fascist.

Fuck this "Shouldn't have worn revealing clothing"-esque victim blaming.

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u/confirmedshill123 18h ago

They are already isolated and we're already divided.

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u/kittenTakeover 18h ago

It can get much worse. Right now we're more weakened than divided. People need to wake up and realize that part of the reason things look bleak is increased division. Pushing further into division will not make our situation brighter. That's only something that adversaries like Russia and China would benefit from.

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u/MasterChildhood437 17h ago

I imagine Canada, California, and the East Coast would be allied. Rather than divided, we'd have them surrounded!

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u/SCViper 18h ago

There's a lot of military in California and the East Coast. A lot more than people think. Plus, we provide most of the money. It would make us a lot stronger, honestly. California and the NE can easily, and successfully, defend themselves if it really came down to it...plus, we provide most of the Federal Budget.

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u/YusukeKomiya 16h ago

The assumption that military based in California and the East Coast would go along with secession is foolish at best. The average voting pattern of the military definitely skews right. Any military base will just see themselves as surrounded by a bunch of rebels. The Civil War more or less laid it out that secession will not be accepted. Considering how the average citizen of either of those places aren't really into guns, you won't really have a home grown basis for resistance.

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u/BackgroundEase6255 17h ago

Yes, because the current system of flipflopping between Democrats and Republicans and having half the country with a 4th grade literacy vote for fascists is a really, really good system.

America is over. I am embracing the balkanization. I don't want to help those that keep hurting my loved ones, the red states can handle their own affairs.

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u/Dances_With_Cheese 19h ago

It is but we’re surrounded by horrible ideas. If I had to pick between being part of a smaller, weaker country or part of a country that invades Canada and Greenland the choice is easy.

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u/kittenTakeover 19h ago edited 18h ago

It's highly unlikely for the US to actually invade Canada, and if it did it has nowhere near the political support needed to pull it off. There would be riots in the street. Politicians would be voted out for any support. Almost nobody in the US wants a war on their doorstep with Canada.

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u/Dances_With_Cheese 19h ago

I didn’t say it would be successful or popular or winnable. I agree with almost everything you said except that nothing is highly unlikely anymore.

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u/SgtMcMuffin0 17h ago

I agree with everything you just said, but I thought the same thing about multiple things that have already happened.

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u/ashymatina Canada 18h ago

I honestly don’t think that’s the case. I’ve been hearing “oh that will never happen, there’d be riots in the street” about hundreds of things in regards to your guys country and this administration for years now, and guess what? No riots.

The time to start rioting and revolting has long passed. At this point it seems clear the majority of your country is far too passive and adverse to any discomfort to actually revolt, and I don’t buy for a minute that trump would be stopped by the American people from invading us. I’m pretty tired of Americans treating genuine threats to our sovereignty as a joke or impossibility, when he’s done every tbh but he’s said be was going to so far. Here in Canada we’re treating it like a real fucking threat and we will fight.

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u/yoLeaveMeAlone 18h ago

You say these things are unpopular and would result in riots in the streets at the same time as our president is saying he wants to do those things...

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u/BengalsGonnaBungle 13h ago

It's highly unlikely for the US to actually invade Canada

It's not unlikely at all, especially once trump's tariffs destroy the economy and we head into a depression.

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u/bryan-healey 19h ago

which Americans?

would be outstanding for the west coast and the northeast.

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u/Lurking_nerd California 19h ago

And sticking with this broken ass system is a better alternative? Fuck that. Like MTG said, time for a national divorce. Republicans, MAGA, and the right have shit talked California for decades while taking our tax dollars. Fuck them. We’ll do our own thing.

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u/kittenTakeover 18h ago

Don't fall for the trap. One of the reasons that Republican politicians are so dangerous is that they push division. Division is not a solution. It's a threat. Don't fall into the very trap as Republicans.

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u/yoLeaveMeAlone 18h ago

I'm sorry but this type of rhetoric is a slap in the face to the immigrants and queer Americans that are under attack and having rights stripped away by this administration, and facing hate crimes by the people that voted for these politicians. They are actively spewing hate about real people, deporting them, taking away their rights, and demonizing them. And then when those marginalized groups respond some privileged people have the balls to criticize the marginalized groups by saying "don't fall for their trap"... Motherfucker their rights are under attack. Lying down and taking it is not a good answer.

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u/zzazzzz 17h ago

destroying your nation by ripping it apart will not lead to a better future for these ppl..

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u/Kanin_usagi 17h ago

Especially because so many of those people live in red states, and have absolutely no way to change that (trust me I would if I could)

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u/yoLeaveMeAlone 17h ago

Well when resistance is painted as "giving in to division" and then demonized as bad what exactly are they to do? Submit to an oppressive regime of fascism because resisting isn't guarenteed to help them?

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u/Malaix 17h ago

It literally can if the alternative is letting red state troopers and red state federal policy destroy their rights and lives.

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u/rolfraikou 7h ago

Look at what our nation has turned into.

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u/goblintacos 19h ago

Better than sticking with admiral fat orange fuck

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u/JustaBearEnthusiast 18h ago

But a great idea for the global south. 🤞

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u/Zanhana California 17h ago

JDPON Don strikes again

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u/Acceptable_Buy177 18h ago

New England, New York/ New Jersey, California, and Texas would all be better off independent. It’s the other states that need them not the other way around.

When America inevitably (I’m talking as a matter of long-term history) collapses those regions are likely to be the ones fighting over the rest. Don’t think it will happen in my lifetime, but who knows?

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u/Dellato88 Michigan 19h ago

It is but I welcome it.

Never going to happen though so its moot to discuss it

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u/Uncertain_Ty 19h ago

it is unless you're a donor state

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u/placentapills 18h ago edited 17h ago

That's really only true for the flyovers and the bible belt (sans TX). The east coast, west coast and the states bordering Canada will be fine.

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u/A_Flock_of_Clams 16h ago

The US is fucked no matter what.

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u/TheDawnOfShe 19h ago

For the ones left behind maybe. But hey California is a shit covered state anyways right? I'm sure Alabama will be FINE.

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u/kittenTakeover 18h ago

No, it would be bad for California too. California benefits from the union, despite propaganda trying to convince people otherwise. You can kind of think about it like the trade situation happening. Right now you sound like Trump, saying "they've been ripping us off for decades."

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u/BatManatee 17h ago

I mean... they literally have. California is the biggest donor state by far in total numbers, and I think 4th going per capita. We also get some of the least amount of federal representation per capital by far. So we get far fewer votes as to how our tax money is spent, then it goes primarily to red states who spend all day every day talking shit about us.

We are, by pretty much any metric, getting the worst part of the deal in the US.

Balkanization would also be terrible, don't get me wrong. But we literally are also being "ripped off".

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u/Seraphynas Washington 19h ago

It’s best case scenario, at this point.

It’s better than the theocratic oligarchy and their “divine rights for rich dudes”. It is also better than outright secession or civil war.

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u/FawkYourself 19h ago

Yeah Reddit is going to celebrate this but this is pretty scary. The American Union falling apart is not good for America or anyone else in the world. A super power like the United States falling apart at the seams would have widespread consequences

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u/Malaix 17h ago

Accelerationism won. I’ve accepted that. The American people will suffer immensely in the coming years. We may even be in the start of a neo-dark age.

It’s time to prepare for that inevitability.

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u/rolfraikou 6h ago

At the pace we are going, the US, the world's most powerful military, is about to be used to take over other countries by force. If it were balkanized, it would be weaker. Imagine if Germany had split into 5 and Hitler was left with only a fifth of his resources? Millions of people would have been saved.

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u/DodgyHedgehog 15h ago

American balkanization is horrible idea for American's

The trouble is that everything else is a horrible idea. The question is whether it's worse than the other likely options.

A year ago I would have said it absolutely is worse, but now I'm not so sure.

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u/Dick_Wienerpenis 18h ago

Our FYI will be fine.

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u/toxic_badgers Colorado 18h ago

Its a russian psy op.

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u/rolfraikou 6h ago

Yes. And right now owns the US political system.

Right now Russia is doing everything it can to remove the influence of the US super-power.

If it balkanizes, it doesn't have that gigantic military, and the incentive to control it is reduced.

I'd rather see some states thrive than everyone get sent to the fucking gulag.

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u/DefinitelyNotAj 17h ago

Yeah it would be a logistical nightmare.

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u/kittenTakeover 15h ago

More than that, it would be a cultural disaster. Fighting division with more division is a losing strategy.

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u/Divan001 14h ago

It used to be. Now that America isn’t the world hegemony, there is no reason why the west and east coast should be burdened with the south and midwest. Trump broke America. I’m not going to let my state be raped economically because of what red states voted for. Republicans broke the social contract and ended what made America a worthwhile experiment.

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u/ForensicPathology 12h ago

It would be interesting at least.  If the new Union is successful and the old one deteriorates, the new one might even let the old ones apply back in (like the EU) after making sure they follow certain rules for entry. 

Presumably the new one already starts with a more modern system of electing government.

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u/TheDawnOfShe 19h ago

One can hope

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u/JeremyBender 18h ago

every day it seems more and more unavoidable hopefully it will be as bloodless as possible

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u/Lurking_nerd California 19h ago

Balkanization is inevitable.

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u/Malaix 17h ago edited 17h ago

Yeah us blue states are sick of this shit and we don’t want to deal with a neo-confederate Nazi take over attempt every 150 years or so or this constant back and forth with a sensible liberal to fascist pendulum swing every 4-8 years.

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u/jeremiah1142 19h ago

Stepping stones? Where have you been, man?!

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u/AstralStrudel 16h ago

Splitting off sounds scary. I already hear a lot of people around me in CA saying they want out, even if it means being very vulnerable to invasion/serious retaliation. I think we're forgetting that we've been trending red, too. A lot of turmoil would come from inside (if this snowballs into something very serious).

Imo the state would likely be in major peril without some big friends taking some very firm stances to be on our side. But if international (and fellow states) begin to make moves, who knows. Definitely gonna be following these developments closely.

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u/Nihilistic_Mystics California 14h ago

I think we're forgetting that we've been trending red, too.

In California, the Republican party has lower voter registration than No Party Preference. Californians are not happy with the Republican party as a whole.

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u/Beautiful-Tea-8067 19h ago

Yep.

Remind me the movie "Civil War"

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u/DressedSpring1 Canada 19h ago

At the end of that movie the bad guy got what was coming to him so...

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u/BlacqanSilverSun 19h ago

Crazy to think that is where all this is headed.

To remind everyone, we are less than 3 months into a 4 year term.

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u/Malaix 17h ago

Yeah people are like “you are all overreacting!” He sent innocent people to a foreign torture sweatshop prison and crashed the economy in three months. He’s set to get a response on his executive order to declare martial law the 20th. The worst is yet to come and we have a loooooong journey to go.

People acting like he’s done with just the current flagrant constitutional crisis and economic disaster.

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u/nysflyboy 17h ago

This is what I don't get. I have had this kind of conversation and so many people are like "well you are overreacting, lets just see how it plays out". They do not understand that the train just crested the mountain and there are NO brakes. Unless a lot of the republicans in power (and voters) wake up real soon, like days/weeks not months, I think US is screwed and will eventually wind up in one of these scenarios.

Its to the point where I do not feel it's insane for anyone and everyone to start prepping now while supplies are still relatively easy to get.

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u/Papayaslice636 16h ago

He gave unprecedented power to a Nazi who gave not one but two massive Heil Hitlers on the world stage on inauguration day from behind the seal of the POTUS. I perceived that as a death threat. I'm preparing accordingly. So yeah, bring it on.

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u/throwawaytoday9q 19h ago

Just like the Russians wanted.

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u/DonutsMcKenzie 18h ago

Are we surprised?

The US federal government only exists on paper. If the Constitution is nullified by the actions of a autocratic dictator and his army of billionaire oligarchs, then the Union itself becomes nullified. The Constitution isn't an a la carte menu, it's either all to be respected or none of it is.

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u/cokolesniik 17h ago

California...Slovenia of USA.

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u/Malaix 17h ago

It’s going to become more appealing as grievances against our federal government and other regions build up.

Like Trump is going to destroy the economy and is likely to declare shit like martial law. We will also probably have significant portions of our rights stripped and our quality of life dropped.

And Trump especially has it out for blue states who he seems eager to personally fuck over.

If it feels like the option is suffer forever or secede people will start picking secede. And I think people underestimate how popular that option is already getting. I think 1 in 5 Americans want to be annexed by Canada. That isn’t counting independence.

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u/Damnfiddles 17h ago

EU membership

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u/Nihilistic_Mystics California 14h ago

The EU said they're not interested in any countries outside of Europe joining. Otherwise I'd jump at that.

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u/BeautifulCandle6443 16h ago

Good. New England can go it's own way as well.

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u/intheyear3001 California 16h ago

We can be Croatia, the flyovers can be Serbia.

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u/account_user_name 16h ago

Can’t wait for the wars that will come with this.

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u/Witgyn 13h ago

Ya that will be the long term result of all of this.

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u/Optiguy42 8h ago

Was looking for this comment. Curious if folks are thinking the same as me, that this obvious breach of the constitution is both testing the waters of secession and telling the world they're open for business.

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