r/science • u/Potential_Being_7226 PhD | Psychology | Neuroscience • 13d ago

Neuroscience Boosting brain’s waste removal system improves memory in old mice | Researchers found that rejuvenating the lymphatic vessels in the brain enhanced recognition memory and restored synaptic function through an interleukin-6 (IL-6) pathway.

https://medicine.washu.edu/news/boosting-brains-waste-removal-system-improves-memory-in-old-mice/
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u/chessmasterjj 13d ago edited 13d ago

How do we clean out our brain of waste? 

Edit: Just says they boosted the lymphatic system of the mice, doesn't say how. If you give "strengthen lymphatic system" a Goog you get physical exercise, hydration and healthy diet. 

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u/Potential_Being_7226 PhD | Psychology | Neuroscience 13d ago

Adequate sleep and exercise are two good ways to improve lymphatic drainage.

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u/livens 13d ago

Exercise, it's always exercise.

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u/the_TAOest 13d ago

Please exercise more. Live long!

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u/Fuzzy_Logic_4_Life 13d ago

And prosper’

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u/Spider_Dude 13d ago

Fascinating.

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u/garlicnaughts 13d ago

Pure energy

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u/Hepofaus 13d ago

Underrated comment right there.

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u/Just-pickone 13d ago

I can hear it in my head.

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u/orthogonius 13d ago

And prosper

And perspire

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u/TheDevilsAvocad0 13d ago

In this economy?!

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u/the_TAOest 13d ago

In 2020 , I withdrew from the rat race, and I learned not spending money is as good as earning more money. I have much more free time and my rewards are ice cream from the store, biking fifty miles, paddling twenty miles in a day, and just gardening or reading.

Yes, I have to be careful, but life is so much better

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u/TheDevilsAvocad0 13d ago

Oh I was just making a joke, the whole 'in this economy?!' thing is a common response.

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u/quantum-magus 13d ago

Noted. Maintain meat suit.

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u/roguealex 13d ago

Exercise and sleep*

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u/___Snoobler___ 13d ago

Why can't they put the effects of exercise and sleep into a pill, patch, or suppository? In all seriousness that'd be pretty great.

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u/Markol0 13d ago

Taking sleeping pills while running around with a butt plug is not my fetish, but you do you.

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u/skoalbrother 13d ago

It's not a fetish, it's brain waste

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u/NoGoodNerfer 13d ago

I’d prefer mine smokable

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u/shellofbiomatter 13d ago

Id just take the sleeping pill, i like to exercise and wouldn't want to lose that, but really don't like sleeping.

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u/___Snoobler___ 13d ago

Could exercise then use the suppository for double the impact. Mutant athletes.

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u/shellofbiomatter 13d ago

We already have that, those are generally referred to as steroids. Though the suppository format would be better than injectables.

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u/roidbro1 13d ago

Don’t threaten me with a good time

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

How does doing exercise not make you tired? When I do a workout I can’t fight the exhaustion when 9pm hits and I’m in bed and sleep like a rock until the sun comes out.

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u/IOnlyLiftSammiches 13d ago edited 13d ago

Could be the difference between those that get a "runner's high" from exercise vs those that don't. If I'm going to have to stay awake for longer than normal (adjusting for swing shifts), I plan for my exercise to take place before the last 6-8 hours of that because it gives me such a mental and physical energy boost.

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u/deanusMachinus 13d ago

Doesn’t everyone get a runner’s high if you run long enough? It just takes 20+ mins of running and most people can’t do that.

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u/TheSpaceCoresDad 13d ago

I run fairly regularly for a lot longer than 20 minutes. I have had runner's high hit me exactly one time, and it was amazing. Never again since then. Always feel like I'm dying by the time I'm done.

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u/ClutchCobra 13d ago

I honestly think some people don't, maybe it's a genetic thing, maybe it's a learned thing, but some are adamant that exercise them discomfort.

And it would really suck for that to be your experience. I couldn't imagine exercising without that rush on endorphins and confidence. It's gotten to the point where my energy levels paradoxically tank on the days I don't exercise. If I'm working a long shift I feel twice as alert throughout the day when I've exercised before

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u/MyFiteSong 13d ago edited 13d ago

There's a high correlation between not receiving the endorphin rush from running and having ADHD. I never believed that high was real until I tried exercising on stimulants.

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u/Primeval_Revenant 13d ago

Back when I was actively exercising regularly there was not a single time where I felt anything but exhaustion and aches. I was just going through it all with the mantra of ‘Do this to be healthy.’ running through my mind constantly and that was NOT encouraging at all. A big factor of why I stopped. It became a greater drain on me than any benefits I was observing (which was probably a purely psychological thing, as there were probably great benefits, but that is just how a mind works).

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u/Toomanydamnfandoms 13d ago

Not everyone does. I used to compete in both long distance and track sprints/relays and I never got my promised runners high :(

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u/IOnlyLiftSammiches 13d ago

Enough people claim that they don't that I have to believe them even if it's not my own experience. I've seen a few studies that also confirm that given the same amount of "work", about 1/3rd of people didn't have the same elevated level of a handful of hormones that the rest did.

20 minutes sounds right for me, and I get it with any sufficiently strenuous physical activity. I think a consistently elevated heart rate might be one of the big triggers for that chemical release; I've not really seen any studies that can nail down exactly what causes it.

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u/shellofbiomatter 13d ago edited 13d ago

Eventually i do get physically tired or weak, but not sleepy. Probably something similar to runners high or maybe adrenaline kicking in and it takes some time for it to wear off. After a workout i don't feel tiredness, I'm just weak. It takes some time for tiredness to kick in, but that does feel good.

Though it does improve sleep, i just don't like to waste time on sleeping or any aspect of sleep.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago

Aryou on any sort of PEDs? It was my understanding sleep was an absolute necessity for recovery and progress. If that’s true I don’t know how someone could make progress with trying to avoid sleep.

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u/shellofbiomatter 13d ago edited 13d ago

Not yet, just therapeutic dose of TRT due to other life issues.

But yeah you are completely right, sleep is very important for recovery and gym performance and I don't avoid sleep, i just don't like it or its necessity.

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u/xycor 13d ago

When you feel sluggish and tired that is a warning sign your body needs exercise. I say this as someone who avoided exercise entirely until my mid-30s. The exhaustion is also a feature. It probably helps one sleep which is when the waste is being flushed from the brain by the lymphatic system. Also, other studies have shown sleeping pills can shut down the nightly waves that drive the cleaning.

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u/MyFiteSong 13d ago

I imagine someday nanos will do that. And they'll be subscription-based.

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u/Aphid61 13d ago

Except for that whole suppository part, I'm with you.

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u/DonutGa1axy 13d ago

Money gives you the free time to do exercise and sleep!

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u/itsKevv 10d ago

Why the correction? What person would confuse this?

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u/savvyblackbird 13d ago

Sleep is actually really important for brain health because it’s during the REM cycles that the brain goes over everything and dumps out the waste. I’ve read that dreams could be our brains’ way of categorizing our memories from the previous day and dumping everything we don’t need long term, but that’s one theory.

I’ve struggled with insomnia for years, and it turned out that my heart wasn’t beating properly when I slept so I kept gasping for air. Once I got a sleep test and a CPAP my sleep changed dramatically for the better. I don’t even nap without my CPAP. My memory is also better.

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u/ghanima 13d ago

Which is why it's just part of why it's crucial to not use one's old age as an excuse to laze around. That, and the fact that we're actively fighting against the body's natural impulse towards muscle loss past middle age, which leads to bone density loss.

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u/flyinthesoup 13d ago

I'm in my mid 40s and I started strength training 2 years ago. I cannot state how good I feel! Focusing on cardio in my 30s was good but I hated every second of it. This time around, seeing my muscles grow and feeling badass is waaaaaay more fun, even if I'm all sore the next day.

And I started doing it exactly because of what you said, to combat natural muscle and bone loss as we age. I don't wanna be an old frail person when I reach 60+.

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u/Poopikaki 13d ago

Best I can do is a drink that makes me shake.

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u/ComparisonCrafty2485 13d ago

Or just delete cache.

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u/SirDigbyChknCaesar 13d ago

I'll always remember you, Fry.

MEMORY DELETED

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u/Dmeechropher 13d ago

It's exercise until we find interventions which are more effective than just protecting the natural system as long as possible.

Nature has a billion year lead on metastable nano-tech on us, with hundreds of thousands of years of human "clinical trials".

Eventually, I expect that we'll find medical interventions which improve beyond baseline. We (scientists & engineers) need mastery of nano-scale biological systems to do it. Until then, basically all medical interventions are geared towards finding ways to help the body return to baseline.

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u/phillyhandroll 13d ago

But juuust the right amount.

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u/Flower1999 13d ago

And or “no sugar”, ugh!

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u/Vileath2 13d ago

Also autophagy is a good way for your body to get rid of waste that most people either don’t think of, know of or don’t want to do because it requires fasting for a couple days.

Edit: misspelled word

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u/Soviet_Canukistan 13d ago

This is because the lymphatic system doesn't have its own pump. Moving is the pump.

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u/xlews_ther1nx 12d ago

"Sure it keeps you healthy...BUT AT WHAT COST!"

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u/Legitimate_Plane_613 13d ago

Some say we were born to run

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u/Dedsnotdead 13d ago

I remember seeing a video of a scan of someone in REM. The brain was flushing/washing itself with cerebrospinal fluid whilst the person being scanned was asleep.

First stage was blood draining from the brain and then the fluid washed in and out in waves to clear some of the accumulated “debris?”.

Our bodies are incredible.

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2019/cerebrospinal-fluid-washing-in-brain-during-sleep/

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u/Potential_Being_7226 PhD | Psychology | Neuroscience 13d ago

Wow very cool video! Thanks for sharing!

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u/LostWoodsInTheField 13d ago

First time I saw that I was a bit sad for myself. My sleep is horrible and all the various stuff I've done hasn't done a good job of fixing that issue (including doctors).

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u/roidmonko 13d ago

Check out the YouTube channel 'the sleep coach school.' The guy also has a book if you prefer. It was the only thing that worked for me.

Also cardio fixes a lot of the issues caused by sleep deprivation. It's hard to get in the gym or go for a run when your exhausted but it's important

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u/apcolleen 11d ago

Have you looked into /r/DSPD if that applies?

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u/alex20_202020 12d ago

I was not so patient to wait until blue wave. After how many minutes does it come on this presumably gif image?

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u/Victuz 13d ago

I'm a parent of small children, I've not had a proper night's sleep in 2 years and it's actually amazing/terrifying just how utterly fucked my memory is. I can scarcely remember films/books I've enjoyed and struggle with placing events on a timeline of recent events. I sure hope that this will get better as the kids get older because otherwise I'm proper fucked.

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u/LittleBroController 13d ago

Not sure if that is just sleep, for me at least imI feel like a lot of these „symptoms“ come from never having an extended period of calm where you can sort things out in your head. 

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u/CCWhistle 12d ago

My kid is 15. I never got back on track and my brain is swiss cheese. I get legit scared- forgetting names of popular celebrities, former colleagues - one time even my own mother-in-law. My wife was able to return to normal though, so... probably just a me thing.

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u/Victuz 11d ago

Memory problems and Alzheimer running in the family are legit my biggest fears so forgetting everything has been a very unpleasant part of an otherwise great experience.

But I think there is hope for me, whenever I get a decent night sleep I actually "feel" sharper. Let's just hope it sticks

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u/Solomonsk5 13d ago

Queue rages in lazy

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u/Arinly 13d ago

You should be able to try and tackle the sleep half at least.

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u/Fuglypump 13d ago

If i sleep four times as much it will make up for my lack of exercise, hydration and healthy diet?

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u/watermelonkiwi 13d ago

Queue rage in insomnia

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u/Scavenger53 13d ago

Apparently jumping on a trampoline amplifies the lymphatic draining compared to other exercise, but yea exercise is important as hell

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u/laggyx400 13d ago

Pff, I'm going back to sleep.

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u/whores-doeuvres 13d ago

And possibly sound/light at 40Hz

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u/eliminating_coasts 13d ago

I'd be curious the effects weightlifting has on this too; I know that it puts temporary stress on the lymphatic system throughout the body, thanks to the changes in blood pressure, but I'm not sure about the brain.

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u/SirDigbyChknCaesar 13d ago

I need a way to exercise in my sleep. It's about efficiency.

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u/Geethebluesky 13d ago

What's the mechanism for exercise helping that? I understand sleep, but what does exercise do?

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u/Potential_Being_7226 PhD | Psychology | Neuroscience 13d ago

Pressure from contracting muscles and increased extra cellular fluid exert pressure on lymph vessels and increase flow of lymph fluid.

Exercising in water can exert additional pressure. 

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u/Geethebluesky 13d ago

Thanks, I have some reading to do!

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u/beamenacein 12d ago

I need the system drained to have the mental fortitude to exercise, eat right and get good sleep, but I need to eat right, exercise and get good sleep to have the system drained.

I'm on a negative feedback train and I can't get off

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u/Truestorydreams 13d ago

Essentially oxygen for the brain or good bloodflow/pressure ?

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u/Potential_Being_7226 PhD | Psychology | Neuroscience 13d ago

The lymphatic system is not the same as the circulatory system, although it has some similarities in that the vessels are present throughout the body and lymph fluid circulates. Physical movement promotes movement of lymph in part through pressure on vessels. Although we don’t have a pump mechanism like the heart for the lymphatic system, there is probably a positive effect of increased blood flow on the movement of lymph (although exercise science is not my area of expertise). 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15974632/

There’s some evidence that during sleep, the lymphatic vessels are able to become less circuitous, which makes the resistance lower and allows lymph fluid to flow more easily:

During natural sleep, levels of norepinephrine decline, leading to an expansion of the brain’s extracellular space, which results in decreased resistance to fluid flow. This is reflected by improved cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) infiltration along the perivascular spaces, and therefore increased interstitial solute clearance [2]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7698404/

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u/Truestorydreams 13d ago

I have to break the articles down and give more reads to grasp because its seems like this study opens up to alzihmers.

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u/Objective_Law5013 13d ago

You would be correct, doctors in Shanghai, China are already trialing an experimental procedure that connects your lymphatic system to venous drainage and it seems to help people with Alzheimer's.

https://gpsych.bmj.com/content/37/3/e101641

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u/Meowgaryen 13d ago

So .. Eat healthy, sleep for 8 hours and exercise? Thanks, I guess

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u/zrooda 13d ago

Imagine we could squeeze it like an old blackhead