r/science • u/eastbayted • 2d ago

Health Sick food service workers remain top driver of viral foodborne outbreaks in US

https://www.healio.com/news/gastroenterology/20250331/sick-food-service-workers-remain-top-driver-of-viral-foodborne-outbreaks-in-us
17.2k Upvotes

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5.9k

u/Eadiacara 2d ago

People need mandated paid sickleave.

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u/Malfunkdung 2d ago

I’ve bartended in restaurants for years. I’ve seen lots of my co-workers come into work sick. The current place I work at actually requires you to go to the doctor if you call out for two day or more in a row. You only get health insurance benefits after one year of working there.

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u/DerpyDaDulfin 2d ago

The restaurant I work at has a points system if you are tardy / miss days. You get points on your record even if you miss days with a doctors note.

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u/theonetheonlytc 1d ago

Sounds about right. 13 years service industry myself. Got out due to the toxic environment that is restaurant work. That entire industry needs an overhaul.

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u/the_most_playerest 1d ago

That entire industry needs an overhaul.

So many of them do!!

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u/vinyl8e8op 1d ago

I left food service and worked IT for a few years. It’s just as bad, worse now, and less pay for what I was doing

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u/noahjsc 1d ago

I'm not American so your laws may be different bit I believe they're similar. Thats a potential lawsuit waiting to happen. Could be worth talking to lawyer. I've heard you can get $$$ from that kinda stuff.

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u/barontaint 1d ago

In America almost all jobs like that are what's called "at-will" employment. You can get fired for any reason as long as it's not because you're a member of a protected class(disabled, race, religion) is the cause for firing, even it is they usually just make something up. It's hard enough to get unemployment after you're fired much less be able to successfully sue for wrongful termination or anything like that.

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u/noahjsc 1d ago

Damn thats fucked up.

If my hours are cut for being sick I have a wrongful dismissal case up north here. Didn't realize your labor laws really had so little protection. But some states do have extra laws from a cursory search.

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

Yes, correct. At-will is not carte blanche for the employer. They still have to follow state and federal laws. But many workers don't know their rights and/or have a defeatist attitude about them.

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u/Shootemout 1d ago

for good reason, if you try to take them to court if the business is smart they will delay and contest everything meanwhile you have bills to pay. you will have to get another job and then you have to hope that if you gotta make an appearance that it wont interfere with the new work hours.

gave up on a case against taco bell because of the above reason, just took it on the chin since the new job i got was significantly better and an actual desk position. rgm sent me to work at her husband's store- that i never worked at before, shift was already short staffed, busiest store in the area, the drive through times were awful as a result. She fired me and I was going through the process of unemployment and whatnot.

I have a lot of labor grievances with Tacala- the folks who own taco bell, as they promote a myriad of straight illegal things to do like (not officially obv) time/wage theft from employees to save stores on labor. When I got a new job working for a temp agency that later converted me but while I was at the temp agency I got a notice that a hearing was scheduled- during my work hours. Couldn't go and everything was dropped as a result. Got the new job before unemployment kicked in so I couldn't even schmooze off of that either

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

I obviously can't comment on your personal situation, but the state department of labor often handles claims of labor law violations. It is not entirely or even mostly on the employee. You bring your claim to the labor board.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I talk about not knowing your rights. You only have to hire a lawyer if your wrongful termination was due to a reason other than state or federal law (e.g. violating a clause in your contract). If your termination violated federal or state law, either the DOL or your state labor department investigate it: https://www.usa.gov/wrongful-termination

Taco Bell is owned by Yum! Brands (I also used to work for them). Is Tacala maybe a large franchisee? A quick search says Tacala has 300 Taco Bell locations in the south, but that's all the info I've got on them.

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u/CustomerSuportPlease 1d ago

Or they just can't afford to hire a lawyer to actually pursue their claim.

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

The state department of labor often handles claims of labor law violations. It is not entirely or even mostly on the employee. You bring your claim to the labor board.

This is the kind of thing I mean when I talk about not knowing your rights. You only have to hire a lawyer if your wrongful termination was due to a reason other than state or federal law (e.g. violating a clause in your contract). If your termination violated federal or state law, either the DOL or your state labor department investigate it: https://www.usa.gov/wrongful-termination

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

Every state has at-will employment. That's the default model in the US (except in Montana and maybe 1 other state iirc). You do still have legal rights under at-will, it doesn't give employers carte blanche. The idea that it does only benefits employers. There are federal and state labor laws they need to follow, and consequences for not doing so.

You're right that it can be hard to enforce your rights, but the more workers that stand up for themselves the harder it is for employers to get away with violating them.

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u/Goosetiers 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's so discouraging, with how much the average worker is struggling even full-time to meet basic standards. The time and cost for an employee to litigate any of that, vs just dealing with it and finding other employment is often the difference between eating/losing your place to live.

You're aware of all this I'm sure, but the average working American living paycheck to paycheck has time for one thing, working. Another bonus for all the companies making sure we get paid as little as possible I guess.

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u/Disorderjunkie 1d ago

This is a common misconception about at-will employment. They cannot fire you for ANY reason, actually there is much more they cannot fire you for in every at will state than just protected classes.

For example, you can absolutely sue your employer in an at will state if they fire you BECAUSE you were sick for a week with covid, and it’s proven they didn’t take steps to make reasonable accommodation. They can fire you without telling you why whenever they want, but if they actually give you a REASON, i’d go talk to an employment lawyer.

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u/Immersi0nn 1d ago

So basically, they can't fire you for just any reason, but they can fire you for no reason.

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u/FesteringNeonDistrac 1d ago

Yeah you basically have to get them on tape saying "I'm firing you because you're black." Otherwise the tiniest shred of cause is enough.

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u/fuzzum111 1d ago

Yeah, American working protections are often almost a joke.

Collecting unemployment, may require fighting just to get it, and if you do it'll be a fraction of your income, and hard-capped after a certain point.

Even if you were wrongfully terminated, unless you've got proof and or a rock-solid case, finding an attorney that will take the case "for free"(meaning a % of the settlement at the end instead of $ up front), it could be YEARS before the case is settled.

Sure, you got your 100k payout from your employer, (more like 50k or less after legal, and fees) but it's been 2 years, you're homeless, and still unable to find a new job.

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u/kkirstenc 1d ago

I’m a nurse (you know, someone who is ostensibly meant to take care of sick people), and this is absolutely the policy almost everywhere I have ever worked. It is madness.

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u/virtual-hermit- 1d ago

Every job with a points system (like mine) can get fucked. Such a juvenile way to punish people.

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u/Vanquish_Dark 1d ago

My work gives discretion to accept doctors notes.... To the supervisor. So he can just write you up even with a valid medical reason.

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u/ZanyDragons 12h ago

The hospital I work at has a point system just like this. The hospital, kind of a place you’d hope not fire you for getting a cold or a genuine illness when you’re elbow deep in someone’s blood or vomit plenty of days. But you’d be wrong. They had to make a special rule just for diagnosed Covid cases so workers could comply with infection precautions without every single person being fired.

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u/mud074 2d ago edited 1d ago

The only time I have seen coworkers call in at restaurants for being sick is when they are debilitatingly sick to the point that they cannot work. Otherwise, gotta make rent. Missing a shift feels about the same as a $160 fine. The cultural norm in the industry is to give 0 fucks about making customers sick, so long as it's not an acute food poisoning that will be traced back to the restaurant.

And as for that, the amount of people I have worked with that are particularly careful with food safety standards even outside of worker illness is a lot lower than it should be

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u/volkmardeadguy 1d ago

once you add in the fact that everyone runs a skeleton crew, one call out exponentially increases everyone elses workload so you have that on your decision to be out sick as well

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u/ZenAdm1n 1d ago

I worked at a restaurant that overcame that by having 2 or 3 unpaid on-call workers per shift. This means scheduling around a shift you won't get called in for because even if someone calls in, they don't necessarily call in the on-call workers. I'd be scheduled 4 or 5 days plus an on-call or 2, meaning I only had one day a week I could count on to be off work and one day a week I couldn't count on being paid.

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u/foxdye22 1d ago

By the way, unpaid on call is illegal. If your time is occupied and you’re not free to go to another job or do whatever you want, you’re supposed to be compensated for that.

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u/evie_quoi 1d ago

Here’s a fun fact: a lot of my coworkers are here illegally. It’s very easy to manipulate people who are vulnerable. All of them allow - with a smile on their face - their breaks to be pushed or not offered at all. Management loves these people

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u/ZenAdm1n 1d ago

It may be illegal now, but things have changed since the 90s. (Except the minimum wage for tipped employees, of course)

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u/foxdye22 1d ago

It was probably illegal then, too, but they were taking advantage of workers who wouldn’t stand up for themselves. I’m not faulting you, I’m just saying it so that other people know their rights and don’t take on call work as a normal thing.

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u/ObligationSlight8771 1d ago

He probably meant the word per diem. We do the same at work. They aren’t in call per se, but are usually available for shifts like this.

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u/travinsky 1d ago

Unpaid on call is not illegal unless you are required to be on premise

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u/TheresWald0 1d ago

Jurisdiction based. It's illegal where I am.

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u/FriendlyDespot 1d ago edited 1d ago

The FLSA standard isn't limited to whether or not you're on work premises, it has to do with how free you are to use your time. The differentiation is whether you're waiting to be engaged, or engaged to wait.

If you're free to do regular everyday activities then you're waiting to be engaged. The classic example is going to watch a movie, and a reasonable period of time before reporting for work sits at around 3-4 hours from the time you're called. If you're not free to do regular everyday activities and are expected to report for work in less than 3-4 hours then you're engaged to wait.

If you're engaged to wait as an FLSA-covered employee then that time is legally considered time worked and should be compensated as such.

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u/PrototypeChicken 18h ago

The company I worked for got around this by illegally making us contract workers...

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u/doublebubbler2120 1d ago

They did that at Trudy's in Austin, Texas. Coincidentally, one of their locations burned down. Burn, baby, burn! The owner, Gary, is an absolute dickhead.

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u/Mental_Tea_4084 1d ago

That sounds illegal

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u/KallistiEngel 1d ago

This should not be on the employees as it's a problem caused by management. Management needs to step in and get into the thick of it if one callout will severely impact service. Good managers do, I've seen it at some places I worked. Bad managers will do anything to avoid having to fill in on the line.

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u/volkmardeadguy 1d ago

cool but "this should be..." and "they could haves..." wont change the scenario facing many people daily

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u/KeyCold7216 1d ago

Back when I worked in fast food, our shift manager was literally sitting in a chair by the dish tank doing dishes and puking in a trash can for 8 hours because we didn't have any other managers to cover and our GM made them come in.

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u/DoctorRoxxo 1d ago

That’s when you call the health department on your way to work and say hey I’m currently throwing up and I’m on my way to this restaurant to work a full shift come visit me and say hi

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u/drewjsph02 1d ago

I worked in restaurants for 20 years and it sucked so bad when it was cold and flu season.

A sick customer or coworker comes in, passes it to someone else, and on and on until it’s been two months of sickness.

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u/Immersi0nn 1d ago

Mind you, that $160 "fine" should be the only negative you have for calling out sick. Sadly this is commonly not the case.

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u/MysticalMummy 1d ago

Same at whole foods. You only get insurance after a certain period, you are required to bring a doctors note if you miss more than 2 days... but that doctors note does not excuse your absence, it only allows you to return.

It says you have to call in sick by law if you have certain symptoms, but then they still punish you when you call in sick.

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u/Znuffie 1d ago

You only get health insurance benefits after one year of working there.

Wild. So you need to not get sick the first year? Damn, who knew it was that easy.

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u/spiritofniter 1d ago

We should decouple insurance and work.

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u/SandyTaintSweat 1d ago

And I'm sure doctors just love it when people come in with contagious colds so they can sign their "stay home" permission slip.

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u/ZanyDragons 12h ago

My doctor is super sane about this and allows a few freebie sick notes to just be emailed from the patient portal so I don’t have to come in. If I need a note longer than a day they want to examine me, of course.

I think it’s super reasonable and helpful if I’m sick to my stomach and don’t want to leave the bathroom to just get a signed note blipped to my phone I can send to my boss. I only need it once a year at best but I’m always soo happy I don’t have to go all the way in for everything.

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u/crazycatlady331 7h ago

The very employers who require a doctor's note for absences are the ones that don't provide health insurance.

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u/Nedgeh 1d ago edited 1d ago

I lost my job at Ashley Furniture because I called in sick for 2 days in a row. When I returned to work (still sick but I need money to pay for rent and food) I was told I needed a doctor's note or else I can't return to work. Despite having insurance through my employer, all "regular" doctors were weeks away appointments and the only people who would see me were holistic doctors like acupressure clinics and whatnot. So I lost my job because I didn't have enough money to see an out of network doctor.

The system doesn't work.

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u/anspee 1d ago

This kind of policy needs to be made illegal

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u/alexandra87239 1d ago

Years ago I worked at a restaurant that served breakfast. I was so sick I was coughing and had lost my voice, but came in as I was scheduled to open and didn't want to leave the 1 other person hanging. Once everything was set up I was hoping to leave because of the violent coughing fits and how do you work as a server when you have no voice. We also had a lot of elderly patrons.

The owner asked me if I was sure I couldn't stay!

Im not sure about other people but I would not feel comfortable dining at a restaurant where the waitress is clearly sick and contagious.

Not to mention, I probably would get other employees sick too.

This was about a decade ago and before COVID, but I'm still annoyed by how they treated sick employees.

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u/nicannkay 1d ago

Yup! And if someone hasn’t been working around the public they will catch all the illnesses the first year. Just like with kids going to school. They know this, it isn’t an oversight.

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u/nonowords 2d ago

as a restaurant worker, this helps a bit, but the primary driver of people working sick in restaurants isn't them not getting paid if they don't, it's short staffing/management pressuring people to work anyway.

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u/gangler52 2d ago

At a restaurant I used to work at, when the dishwasher called in sick, one of the waitresses would have to wash dishes, which meant she didn't get tips from waiting tables.

So, that was a constant source of drama.

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u/nonowords 2d ago

unless they switch to an hourly wage for that time that is wildly illegal. If they did switch though, then that's funny as hell to me.

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u/DeshTheWraith 2d ago

I can't imagine the hourly wage they pay is anywhere near worth her time to not receive tips.

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u/barontaint 1d ago

I got $18 an hour to wash dishes when I last was doing it to help buddies out post covid. I'm told the going rate has gone up since then. Granted these are big city Cleveland rates though. If that's not worth her time then that place needs to have an honest discussion about BOH vs FOH payrate and potential tip sharing.

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u/DeshTheWraith 1d ago

My sisters ex used to have a job as a dishwasher here in MD. At a senior home not a restaurant, if that makes any difference (also NOT in a city), but he was making $14/hr during that time. I don't know how much a server averages with tips but I imagine in both our states they're doing better than that. Here even $21 would be straddling the poverty line.

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u/nonowords 2d ago

it definitely wouldn't. Them having to do boh work for boh pay for a shift and it causing drama is why I find it funny.

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u/Piogre 1d ago

When I delivered pizza my wage when I was out on deliveries was a dollar less than when I was in the store. Literally the time elapsed between checking out for a deliveries and checking back in was tallied up and docked appropriately from my paycheck.

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u/Synapse7777 1d ago

My son just got a job at a local papa johns delivering pizza and after his first day he said he was required to clock out when he made a delivery. He didn't return for a 2nd day.

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u/doublebubbler2120 1d ago

I have a friend who worked for one in Conroe or Spring, Texas, and they get paid $2.35 while on delivery. Min wage for tipped workers.

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u/worldspawn00 1d ago

Damn, when I worked a papa John's in college (about 15 years ago) we got state minimum (5.50 iirc) for the entire shift, plus our tips, plus a sliding scale commission on the deliveries themselves, 10% of your first 10, then it would go up to 15% when you hit 20 in a shift, it paid really well on busy nights.

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u/guff1988 1d ago

Only $1? At Pizza Hut it was 4.25 while on the road.

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u/gangler52 2d ago

I have no idea how they handled that. Honestly, never occurred to me to ask.

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u/unclefisty 1d ago

My anecdotal experience has been that restaurants are rampant with wage theft by employers, especially since many of the people working there are not well off and have no idea of their actual rights.

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u/HaloGuy381 8h ago

Or even if they know them, they lack the means to hire a lawyer to fight or to bring a case to the proper agencies. Even if the lawyer is on contingency, the time involved to gather information and find allies is more than people barely putting bread on the table can muster.

Also, not quite the same, but retail at least attracts a -lot- of workers with a wide variety of disabilities (which are often not formally categorized because to declare it is a giant sign saying “find an excuse to fire me”), some of which may not interfere with work but might make it very difficult to fight such a situation. Throw in how hard it is to find another employer for said people, and just letting the wage theft happen becomes an understandable reaction.

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u/Dashiepants 1d ago

Even if they did pay an hourly wage it would get eaten up by the taxes owed on tips, working a boh shift and foh shifts on the same paycheck means that you’re boh pay is going straight towards your end of year tax bill.

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u/Splash_Attack 1d ago edited 1d ago

as a restaurant worker, this helps a bit, but the primary driver of people working sick in restaurants isn't them not getting paid if they don't

This would not be an issue if there was mandated paid sick leave, because it would be paid.

You might now be thinking "no, you don't understand, these are shift workers" but that's a reflection of poor labour protections in the US. In many other countries statuatory sick pay or whatever the equivalent thing is includes people on zero hour contracts and casual arrangements.

You might think "well they would just retaliate against people who took it" except that using your statuatory sick leave is also protected. So if your employer treats you differently for taking it they are in a world of trouble.

It doesn't perfectly protect against all problems that might arise, but if the US just copy-pasted the sick pay laws from any other common law country whole-cloth it would solve a huge array of problems.

edit: I am illiterate and read "isn't" as "is". I've left the comment as is, but ignore the first paragraph. The bit about protection against retaliation is still valid. It's only possible for managers to apply pressure in that way because of a lack of protection against it, and there is a clear model for the kind of protection needed.

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u/PiotrekDG 1d ago

The dumbest part is that the restaurant owner still most likely loses more productivity overall when a sick employee comes in with a disease and infects their coworkers.

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u/Amberatlast 1d ago

Seriously, every kitchen has you working elbow to elbow with the same people in a stuffy room for hours on end. A cold can rip through a place like that so fast, and none of them have staff to cover two call-outs on the same day.

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u/Rocktopod 1d ago

Not if everyone just comes in and works while sick instead of staying home.

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u/PiotrekDG 1d ago

I mean, that might depend on the role, but presenteeism has negative consequences in general. Just the loss of productivity and mental health burdens might be enough to offset perceived benefits.

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u/Opening_Newspaper_97 1d ago

Ya calling out is just gonna get your coworkers treating you like you're a dickhead especially managers/boss

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u/SlothBling 2d ago

It’s one of the inherent issues of the service industry that I can’t really imagine a workaround for; no one should have to come in on their day off, but no workplace schedules extra staff to loiter around on property performing no labor on the off chance that someone calls out and they become needed. Honestly, I really feel like most of the luxuries afforded to workers in “civilized” countries must only be relevant to white collar workers or society would immediately grind to a halt. When Scandinavians take their summer vacations, who produces the food and provides public services?

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u/Splash_Attack 1d ago

When Scandinavians take their summer vacations, who produces the food and provides public services?

It's not all at the same time. People are entitled to a few weeks of holidays consecutively, somewhere within in a three month summer period. Businesses just plan ahead and make sure their staff don't all take it at the same time.

Or sometimes they do the opposite and do all take it at once, and simply close for a month. How many businesses are there that people cannot live without for one month?

Many businesses also take on some seasonal staff in the summer if they want to stay open. It isn't really that complicated, it's not like summer comes as a surprise to anyone.

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u/sfurbo 1d ago

It’s one of the inherent issues of the service industry that I can’t really imagine a workaround for; no one should have to come in on their day off, but no workplace schedules extra staff to loiter around on property performing no labor on the off chance that someone calls out and they become needed.

There's loads of reasonable solutions: Make the pay to go in on your day off worth it, pay people a certain amount to be on call, or have enough staff that a normal amount of illness takes it from "OK" to "busy". They all cost the business money, so there needs to be some external push, either from legislation or from unions, and they will increase prices.

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u/rileyoneill 1d ago

There can also be companies that offer “fill in” services for restaurants. Like they have dishwashers who work for them. If you run a restaurant and your dishwasher is sick you call up this company and request a dishwasher and one shows up and fills in. You pay the company, not the laborer (the company pays the laborer). If a city has hundreds restaurants it’s likely a common scenario where a dishwasher is sick in at least a few of them on a regular basis. This would be more expensive than paying a regular full time employee but at least they will likely never be short staffed and could fill positions with a very short notice.

If you work as a dishwasher for one of these companies you will probably work daily, just at a different restaurant every day. Your workload will not be agreed between you and the restaurant you are working for at the day but between you and your employer, your employer will work out the details with the restaurant. So if the restaurant owner can’t just ask you to do a bunch of extras because their agreement is with the company that employs you.

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u/sfurbo 1d ago

That's a really good option I hadn't considered, thank you for mentioning it.

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u/funAmbassador 1d ago

Yessss!!! I’ve always fantasized about there being some kind of “food workers guild” or something. With services and resources like this to help us out. I love this industry, but man, it can be so cruel and unfair

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u/Vivecs954 1d ago

It seems like this is only a problem in the us

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u/Sgt-Spliff- 1d ago

Which is why they literally asked what other countries do. What do other countries do when shift workers call off last minute?

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u/Vivecs954 1d ago

They pay them more, they have union representation, they have higher prices and are open less so less staff needed.

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u/Sgt-Spliff- 1d ago

Most of what you said doesn't address what they do when shift workers call off though. Like if you run a coffee shop and your barista calls in sick. How does the coffee shop operate that day?

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u/leitmot 1d ago

Maybe it’s ok for the coffee shop not to operate for one day

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u/theaxolotlgod 1d ago

My husband was sick once as a server, threw up in the back and let the manager know he had to leave. Manager said no, husband pushed back, and manager told him “I mean, I could just say I had to send you home cause you were hungover and not doing your job”. This was one of our better managers too, but this kind of behavior is so standard in the industry.

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u/funAmbassador 1d ago

You hit the nail on the head on that one for me. I’m really happy and grateful to have a chef who takes me calling out seriously, and has never guilted me. BUT SO MANY OTHERS IN MANAGEMENT HAVE!!

The anxiety I get from just the thought of calling out bc my cramps are too painful, or I’m running a fever, makes my stomach turn. I HATE HATE HATE having to defend myself about how well my body can function

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u/Lesurous 2d ago

Unfortunately that's socialism, an infringement on the rights of businesses, and against God's will. That's the three reasons they give us why we can't have nice things.

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u/polopolo05 2d ago

also businesses get tax breaks and grant... and loans they dont have to pay back

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u/cloudystateofmind 2d ago

That’s no problem. The costs just get past down to working people.

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u/Zoesan 1d ago

Even in countries with normal sick leave people don't fhcking stay home

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u/Eric_the_Barbarian 1d ago

Employers/managers also need to be liable when they let workers attend shifts while sick. It has to go beyond stated policy; it must be a bigger problem than finding a substitute to cover the shift.

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u/BrewerBeer 2d ago

Shout out to Washington State for passing mandated paid sick leave.

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u/THElaytox 1d ago

my coworkers still show up sick and it's infuriating. i've had COVID, the flu, and two colds since like November. had two employees here yesterday with stomach flu until they were told to leave

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u/fankuverymuch 1d ago edited 9h ago

One (1) pandemic later, and we still don’t have mandated paid sick leave. I don’t know what it will take. 

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u/USA_A-OK 1d ago

I was really hoping this would be one positive we got out of COVID. No such luck

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u/sysdmn 1d ago

The complete destruction of the conservative movement in America, and the utter ruin of Oligarchs and their money in politics. They will always stop it. How we achieve that I don't know.

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u/Primedirector3 2d ago

Stop Voting Republican

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u/SmokeyDBear 1d ago

You don’t even need empathy to support this just a simple desire not to get infected by your food and we still can’t figure this out.

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u/konfuck 1d ago

I had a GM tell me I need to prioritize work over family.

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

I hope you told them where to stuff it.

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u/eaw0913 1d ago

The US has done an incredible job convincing its citizens that having absolutely no workers rights is good for them. I’ve even seen people who pride themselves in never missing work, even when sick. Pure insanity.

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u/ShadowSpade 1d ago

In the 'great' US of A, your employers have the FREEDOM to keep you working

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

The "US" stands for "us" and not "you", obviously.

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u/Sickness4Life 1d ago

I had a manager brag about working with covid. He worked mostly in the kitchen. The entire kitchen ended up with it.

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u/thefatchef321 1d ago

People need to make a wage that can allow to miss work.

In the last few years, service industry work has gotten cheap.

Everyone has to work 2 jobs to make ends meet

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u/Progman3K 1d ago

Meanwhile leon skum will continue to hack away at the social safety net while fattening himself up

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u/TraditionalLight1 1d ago

Mandated=/= efficacy. Many small /medium businesses skirt regulations easily, because enforcement is limited and costly; typically requires and employee getting fired and filing a lawsuit to hold owners accountable, so mostly the honor system.

I’ve worked in the restaurant business for years. I’ve fired people for “attendance issues”. I’ve been fired for “attendance issues.” It’s a cultural problem with America and our world in businesses where profit is prioritized over well being. Not to mention the margins are extremely thin in the best of circumstances.

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

Oh there's definitely a cultural problem. But I also feel that in enforcing at least the large businesses to make them comply we could get a lot done and really bring down transmission.

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u/VonBeegs 1d ago

When you get it, there's always an HR department Nazi questioning every day you take.

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u/electricdwarf 1d ago

It feels like everything is already understaffed. I dont think many service industry jobs can even handle mandated sick leave. I mean sure, many go in because they NEED the money. But I would say the majority of people that go in sick do it because there just isnt anyone else available to cover that shift.

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u/ArtemisCatGoddess 1d ago edited 1d ago

Sick leave isn’t enough. The other problem is to justify any sort of wage increase places are slashing hours to maintain a bottom line that doesn’t decrease profit for CEOs etc. I’m a manager of a small pharmacy and I send people home and never enforce any rules in regards to people being sick. We have 5 paid sick days a year, and I can’t override that but if you’re sick stay home. Please don’t get me or my patients sick. However my staff is tiny, there’s 3 of us. So there’s literally no coverage or backup or anyone we can call to cover if people are sick, so people feel guilty about calling in. I literally have to send people home, “but you’ll be alone!” Which I can’t explain how much that makes my blood boil toward corporate. Especially since I have worked in 2 pharmacies for the same chain that have near identical script counts/workload. One store is allotted 40 pharmacist hours and 64 tech hours; the other is allotted 48 pharmacist hours and 100 tech hours. The difference? One pharmacy is more rural so the wages are 10-20% higher. Take a random stab at what allotted hours were given to the store and where the only difference was higher wage? Then we get caught in the loop of “you have too much overtime! Why aren’t these professional services being done?!” Well it’s because you refuse to hire more than a skeleton crew which is constantly behind and can barely keep up with the day to day to ensure the CEO gets his multimillion dollar bonus.

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

Yup. I'm not shocked at this at all.

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u/MrLuthor 1d ago

But they'll use it to take vacations! You're absolutely right we should give mandated vacation time too. 

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

Damn right! And paid parental leave.

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u/evie_quoi 1d ago

The problem is that we get straight time when we get sick time - which is minimum wage. We rely on our tips for a living wage. Everyone goes in sick, incredibly sick sometimes, because as long as you can stand, you gotta pay your bills.

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u/C_Madison 1d ago

That people in the US still don't have mandated paid sick leave gets me every time. It sounds like some kind of story from the 1800s or from very poor countries, not from one of the richest/the richest country in the world.

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u/Rustmonger 1d ago

In this economy?!

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u/sesame_chicken_rice 1d ago

I accidentally read this as, "Poors need mandated paid sickleave" welp, it still read the same

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u/Thors_Shillelagh 1d ago

Yes! But it's not just that. The workers feel very loyal to their co-workers. Everyone understands how difficult and exhausting it is to pick up the slack of a missing team member when they're sick. Team members often come in when sick even if there is sick time to be used because they don't want to burden and burn out their team. There needs to be a shift from maximizing profits to adequate coverage to allow someone to call in sick and the operation to still run smoothly.

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

yeah I don't know how you deal with the chronic understaffing issue either :/

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u/Upstairs-Teacher-764 1d ago

Yep. And it needs to be long enough to actually finish fighting a virus! It makes no sense to be handling food while you're still running a fever.

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u/AnAnoyingNinja 1d ago

people companies.

Law is only relavent if it is enforced. It's not fair to the workers who are pressured to go to work, it should be the duty of employer, and they should be fined for failing to meet that duty.

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u/MourningWallaby 1d ago

I was going to say, even without reading the article I could tell this is why. when I worked in food processing you had a bunch of 18-20something year olds who didnt know any better showing up sick because 1) the didnt realize being sick was a reason to call out and 2) they didnt want to miss out on that pay.

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u/ALLoftheFancyPants 1d ago

Even unpaid sick-leave would probably improve SOME of this.

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u/Fox009 1d ago

Yeah, I’ve seen this in the healthcare field where nurses come in sick because they’re not allowed to or punished for taking time off. I’ve also seen this in service in industries such as restaurants and bars because they’re already shortstaffed if somebody calls off, they’ll be punished.

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

jfc of all the places healthcare should be the absolute last one for this!

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u/virtual-hermit- 1d ago

Also need a major shift in American work culture that recognizes the need to stay home when sick. Plenty of people go to work sick of their own volition, regardless of potential loss in pay, just because that's what's drilled into them. Work work work, no matter what. Bosses, too, will threaten and/or beg sick employees to come in because they just don't want to deal with finding coverage or being shorthanded.

The issue is a lot deeper than just providing sick leave. It's making people use it, and also making bosses let people use it. I'll never get over the dichotomy we have here between "it's absolutely essential that you come into work", and "also we aren't going to give you raises or benefits or anything to tangibly indicate how essential you are".

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u/THElaytox 1d ago

i'm not sure that it would stop them honestly. we get sick leave where i work and people still come to work sick all the goddamn time. had two people show up yesterday with the stomach flu. there's a weird work culture in the US where people seem literally afraid to not go to work for any reason.

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u/Throwaway021614 1d ago

Weird conservative business owners were so anti masking. Keeps your employees working and gives a sense of safety from the customer POV. Win-win from a /r/aboringdystopia pov.

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u/sas223 1d ago

And you have to change restaurant culture on top of it. When I worked in kitchens the standard was you show up unless you are in the hospital or dead.

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u/squirrelmynutz 3h ago

Michigan just passed this! I believe it went into affect a few weeks ago.

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u/GWsublime 1d ago

And single payer healthcare

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u/Magnusg 2d ago

Even when you have it people don't take it

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u/sewerhobo 2d ago

I have a coworker who brags about having the most accumulated sick time leave but also will come in coughing in everyone's space. Makes me want to punch a wall.

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u/Samtoast 1d ago

Hypothetical workplace you're told that if you are sick you need to stay home...however after 6 missed days you're required to bring a doctors note for every missed absence even if it's mental health related and you've already given a note from the doctor stating you've got mental health issues

Only, it's not hypothetical.

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

.... and there comes in the healthcare issue too. Total agreement from me.

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u/RedsSufferAneurysms 1d ago

You mean you want employers to pay their employees for not working? How un-American of you.

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u/Guvante 1d ago

Paid sick leave doesn't matter if the majority of your income is tips.

We also need to get rid of tipping to encourage people to actually take sick days.

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u/Holiday_Session_8317 1d ago

In my state the people voted for it. Then the legislature somehow said “nuh uh” and despite it passing the vote it’s getting smacked down anyway. Apparently what people vote for just doesn’t matter anymore.

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

yeah there's a lot fucked up with our country right now. Are you in Utah by any chance?

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u/Holiday_Session_8317 1d ago

Nope different red state

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u/Eadiacara 1d ago

I moved from Utah to a blue state and the difference is night and day. Utah has a history of doing BS like that, too.

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u/blueblurz94 1d ago

Can’t do that, the CEO needs their 70th Lamborghini TODAY!!!

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