r/slaythespire 1d ago

CUSTOM CONTENT Is this a balanced boss relic?

Post image

It can be strong if 3 out of 60 cards synergizes. But you can be unlucky with the randomly generated 60 cards and find minimal synergy. Prismatic shard is also a double edged sword. Trying to make this a balanced boss relic. What do you think?

1.1k Upvotes

84 comments sorted by

615

u/achernar184 Ascension 20 1d ago

Have no idea about balance, but it's well designed one for an underexplored ability. Regardless of power level, I think it should be kept at boss relic and not rare. Because it is run defining, it should have a high opportunity cost.

380

u/Scoobydoomed Eternal One + Heartbreaker 1d ago

Wraith Form + Nightmare for you, Wraith Form + Nightmare for YOU, Wraith Form + Nightmare for EVERYONE!

99

u/Competitive-Pear-840 1d ago

Dual Wield*

76

u/VeryLargeQ-mark 1d ago

Yeah, when I think about it, Dual Weild is literally just Nightmare this turn, but it costs less and can't make skills

33

u/Tarantio 1d ago

It also can't make curses or status cards.

Which is a thing you might even want to do sometimes!

36

u/Hylux_ 1d ago

The forbidden nightmare>wound to abuse medkit and dead branch

6

u/Mini_Boss_Tank 1d ago

the woeful nightmare>necronomicurse

1

u/Bungerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Ascension 7 1d ago

Evolution

2

u/PlacidPlatypus 1d ago

A bit awkward especially when you're giving up a boss relic so it's harder to get to 4+ energy.

103

u/Darthskixx9 1d ago

Seems like it would need some testing to see how balanced this would be, but super nice designed and seems really really fun to play, with a high skill ceiling. At first thought 3 out of 60 also seems like a good amount imo

166

u/Aureon 1d ago

Pick 1 of 20, three times would probably be better - 3 out of 60 is gonna be a LOT of book keeping

146

u/0x8FCA7696 1d ago

It's actually quite easy:

  1. Take all claws
  2. Take all wraith forms
  3. Take all vaults
  4. Take all scrawls

48

u/SirRobyC 1d ago

What if you're offered more than 3 claws. How do you decide which ones to take and which ones to leave behind

10

u/Dilarinee 1d ago

Upgraded vs. Not

50

u/breachgnome Eternal One + Heartbreaker 1d ago

Exactly. You want to take the unupgraded versions so that the enemy can further feel the pain and glory that is claw.

-18

u/rayschoon 1d ago

I feel like even 3 claws isn’t great

21

u/PointlessSerpent 1d ago

Heresy

1

u/Somemaster54 8h ago

no, no, they’re into something. 3 claws is not great at all- you want at least 5

12

u/bassman1805 1d ago

Straight to jail.

42

u/stathow Eternal One + Heartbreaker 1d ago

yes but would make it weaker, if it worked like library

picking each without knowing the others is a lot weaker

9

u/TohsakaXArcher 1d ago

I assume it would work like orrery

17

u/diodenkn 1d ago

There isn’t really precedent for card rewards with more than 4 options though. If you mod multiple question cards into the game you eventually get a horizontal scroll bar which would be kind of ugly. I think this relic would work best as just a mega form of library.

5

u/Fuschiakraken42 Ascension 17 1d ago

What about the Library where you add 1 of 20 to your deck?

12

u/diodenkn 1d ago

I literally mentioned that in my comment, because that isn’t coded as a card reward.

3

u/Fuschiakraken42 Ascension 17 1d ago

My bad, I was distracted.

2

u/diodenkn 1d ago

No worries

1

u/breachgnome Eternal One + Heartbreaker 1d ago

Risk of Rain (I think) has a thing you can unlock which allows for selecting from a large amount for each reward. It's nutso overpowered, but it's not the worst thing to scroll left and right to see all of the rewards.

8

u/Akimbo_shoutgun Ascension 15 1d ago

Easy, make 3 cups of coffee, grab a note book, write all 60, scratch the useless ones (ex. Biased cog on watcher) and then rank them best on which would help you. Yes it will take a lot, but you'll gain a lot.

2

u/hedoeswhathewants 1d ago

This makes me wonder if library event cards are from all classes if you have shard

1

u/Collective-Bee 1d ago

Prob not, cuz shard specifies ‘combat rewards.’ Shops don’t count and probably not events either.

2

u/Gazmanic 1d ago

I think this is probably more balanced, as it will result in you picking 3 high value cards, which will still be awesome, as opposed to being able to pick 3 cards that synergise like claw

56

u/RatPhoenix 1d ago

Balanced or not I can't say, but this looks super fun. Would you be opposed if I made this into a mod if I found the time?

31

u/dogchow01 1d ago

You are welcome to go ahead. Just PM me when you do, love to try it myself.

1

u/Aho0oB 23h ago

Same, would love to try it in a mod

1

u/Malik_P Eternal One 15h ago

Add me to the list too

91

u/dumpduck Eternal One + Heartbreaker 1d ago

You're skipping a +1 energy relic for this, which makes the cards you get from this harder to play.

It's also hard to tell if 60 cards is too much, too little, or just right without seeing it in action.

And even if it's unbalanced, it's easily adjustable with a simple number tweak, and it's a fun idea.

Overall, very nice concept.

7

u/Rockztar 1d ago

I would love to try out this relic. I'm always too conservative to pick shard.

2

u/KJawesome5 1d ago

Once you get enough hours it's one of the few relics that mixes things up.

As a rule I take it every time I can afford it because even if it makes me lose it'll be an interesting run

Also I prefer it as opposed to a colorless run because you have to start getting a deck going and then introduce random bullshit

1

u/Glittering_Cod_7716 7h ago

I’m too reckless and take shard pretty much every time lmao

4

u/tbhamish 1d ago

It feels fine given it's a boss relic. Since you need to pass on something like astro removing 3 bad cards and upgrading, or an energy relic.

60 cards feels like a lot of choice but without testing it's hard to know. You can get some phenomenal synergy, really good generic cards or absolute toss.

An alternative making it 3 smaller pools you can pass or pick from 4 pools of 12 each from the 3 other classes and the 4th being colourless.

Seems fun but definitely would need play testing

5

u/Automatic_Tangelo_53 1d ago

This feels like it combines "get lots of cards" and "get off-colour cards". Sorting through 60 cards would be a slog. How about:

  • After each floor, see a card of any colour and choose to add it to your deck
  • Card rewards include a fourth card of any colour
  • Gain 10 cards of any colour and discard 10 cards from your library

2

u/dontworryaboutsunami Ascension 20 1d ago

I like this version, it's less cumbersome. Does the third part work like Pandora's Box? If so it's very fun and probably not OP, since the 10 random cards you get shafted with might include all kinds of junk that doesn't synergize.

3

u/Flintloq 1d ago

Might be the most interesting, not immediately obviously over- or underpowered idea for a new relic I've seen on this sub.

3

u/[deleted] 1d ago

Conceptually awesome poetically numerically imbalanced (60 is a big number)

But still super cool.

9

u/Martitoad Eternal One + Ascended 1d ago

I think it would be too op, it gives lots of options. Maybe reduce it to 50 or 40 idk

2

u/oksurebro 1d ago

Would be really fun that. I love trying out new combinations with cards across different colours

2

u/MTaur 1d ago

I'm not totally sure that this really is busted, as it sticks you with the shard for the rest of the run. If it were only offered before Act 2, then the downside of having to play Prismatic Shard would be more of a genuine downside.

After Act 2, it would be more likely that you could finish up a strong deck with hand-picked capstones. So I think it's probably too strong after Act 2, but maybe just too inconsistent and still sometimes OP as an Act 1 or swap. I might undervalue it because I suck at shard runs or modifier rainbow runs.

11

u/AffectionateOnion594 1d ago

Without putting too much thought into it, 60 definitely seems like too much. Prismatic shard can already be a stupidly powerful relic on its own in the right circumstances

62

u/TheMausoleumOfHope Ascension 20 1d ago

If by the “right circumstances” you mean stupendous luck then yea it’s great. Other than that it’s actively bad almost all the time. It’s certainly nowhere remotely close to stupidly powerful.

-4

u/AffectionateOnion594 1d ago

I mean pretty much, yeah. Or if your deck is already a winning deck, it can transform that from a win into a no brain win. Then again, so can quite a few things so I guess I’m just talking out my ass

22

u/TheMausoleumOfHope Ascension 20 1d ago

Even turning a “likely winning” run to a “absolutely stomping everything” run is much more likely to occur if you remain within the characters card pool. Prismatic Shard is fun and goofy and great for memes, but it’s essentially never the right pick outside of the Act 4 shop if you’re playing not Defect.

73

u/KeepHopingSucker 1d ago

prismatic is a negative value relic that actively reduces your winrate. the fact it has things like blasphemy or alchemize to highroll with means nothing when your card pool is diluted by so much. it is fun though

2

u/TDenverFan 1d ago

The issue with Prismatic is my monkey brain only thinks of the highroll possibilities, not all the junk I'll actually see in the card rewards, so I'm tempted to take it on the 5% chance I can find an absolutely broken combo.

3

u/KeepHopingSucker 1d ago

yeah, it's the funniest relic in the game. I'll never forget my four pressure points in a row for silent

5

u/stathow Eternal One + Heartbreaker 1d ago

i actually think its too little.

think about it, library event is 20..... thats all of one color, and even then its not always deck changing.

this event would combine all 4 character decks and colorless, nearly 5 times as many cards yet only 3 times as many to pick from

there is a reason why most people never play prism, its because in theory it can have insane combos, but most of the time it just ends of ruining your run as now none of your cards have synergy

2

u/UziiLVD Ascension 1 1d ago

Doesn't synergize well with [[Prismatic Shard]], I don't really like relics that make other relics obsolete.

Why not just drop the Prismatic Shard part, and just pick 3 of 60 all colored cards?

14

u/dalekrule Eternal One + Heartbreaker 1d ago edited 1d ago

Because prismatic shard is a nerf, and just pick 3 out of 60 cards = win game.
The prismatic shard here is a downside for an incredibly powerful boss relic.

"Get prismatic shard. See your next 20 card rewards, and take 3 cards of your choice from them."

1

u/hyperloba 1d ago

it could be so you get prismatic but you don't get card rewards from the character you are playing with

1

u/dalekrule Eternal One + Heartbreaker 1d ago edited 3h ago

I understand. What I'm saying is that without giving you prismatic shard, this boss relic would be by far the strongest boss relic.

1

u/hyperloba 1d ago

i agree with you on that

3

u/Darthskixx9 1d ago

But that's easy to fix right? You can just make it that you only get this relic if you don't have prismatic shard yet

0

u/UziiLVD Ascension 1 1d ago

The reverse situation is that you already have Prismatic and at this point half of this relic's effect is effectively neutralized, and Prismatic itself becomes obsolete.

Not that the game doesn't already have these things (Sozu, Slime, etc) but in those cases you're nerfing yourself by picking the boss relic. In this case it would be a straight buff.

3

u/akappaa 1d ago

i’m pretty sure they’re suggesting that you’re only offered this relic if you don’t already have prismatic share, similarly to how you can only be offered black blood if you still have burning blood.

1

u/UziiLVD Ascension 1 1d ago

Got it, my bad!

2

u/spirescan-bot 1d ago
  • Prismatic Shard Shop Relic (100% sure)

    Combat reward screens now contain colorless cards and cards from other colors.

    Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?

1

u/WolframParadoxica 1d ago

if you want an alliterative name, multiverse mirror is up for grabs

1

u/Captain--UP Heartbreaker 1d ago

Might be OP. What are the odds I get [[Juggernaut]] on Defect if I pick this.

1

u/spirescan-bot 1d ago
  • Juggernaut Ironclad Rare Power (100% sure)

    2 Energy | Whenever you gain Block, deal 5(7) damage to a random enemy.

    Call me with up to 10 [[ name ]], where name is a card, relic, event, or potion. Data accurate as of April 20, 2024. Wiki Questions?

1

u/Pitiful_Option_108 1d ago

It seems fine but I do wonder what is the limits of this type of relic. Is it choose from a bunch of common and uncommon? Are rare cards for choosing? That is kinda of the good and bad. What does that pool of sixty cards look like?

1

u/Competitive-Pear-840 1d ago

This would be very, very strong. Prostrate and Hologram are both commons.

1

u/External-Stay-5830 1d ago

Woe. Corpse explosion be apon you.

1

u/deDoohd 1d ago

As a shard enjoyer, the first sentence alone is enough

1

u/GammaEmerald Ascension 20 1d ago

Fun boss swap tbh

1

u/Zael0 1d ago

Pray for Feel No Pain

1

u/CalmLotus Ascension 18 1d ago

Blasphemy + 2 Apparitiond?

1

u/kitty_crusher Ascension 4 1d ago

The 60 cards are randomly selected from all the cards in the game (really all) contains no rare cards and cards can be repeated

1

u/Ajax3410 Eternal One + Ascended 1d ago

Can it show you the same card twice or thrice?

1

u/Lanceps 1d ago

This is a turbo broken prismatic relic. Taking out alot of the rng in prismatic usually means a free win. Consider the extremely op synergies regarding block, buffs, and watcher cards.

This relic should have a substantial downside. Something like less gold, less card rewards, or less healing. Or maybe you could make it so that you have to take a card reward, no more skip? That alone would likely be more than enough to bring it down in line, you could even buff the selection power in response.

There could also be an adjustment in order to qualify as an actually challenging but good mindbloom reward. Giving you a chance to get a couple cards from a selection, much like it normally does.

1

u/neoh666x 1d ago

I think this just wins Watcher the game on the spot.

1

u/doxara 19h ago

Would be better if you already had Prismatic Shard, then there is a chance for a special event where you could sacrifice it in exhange for picking 3 put of 60 cards?

1

u/OGBigPants 10h ago

Seems extremely strong to me. Hard to say if prismatic shard is an upside or not, but picking 3 out of 60 card practically guarantees strong synergies, or at least good cards

1

u/Largest_Hippo2025 3h ago

Imagine the 60 cards are all clash

1

u/omnisephiroth Heartbreaker 3h ago

It’ll win a lot of games by itself. Choosing 3 cards out of 60 gives you a solid chance to just suddenly win. I mean, no promises, but it’s… a triple Library. Library is good.

-1

u/justarandomautist 1d ago

be defect

boss swap into this

fucking free win