r/politics • u/sweatycat New York • 20h ago

California to Negotiate Trade With Other Countries to Bypass Trump Tariffs

https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414
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u/SharpCookie232 19h ago

Same. Here in Massachusetts.

The blue states should secede. On our own or in some kind of partnership with Canada (United States of Canadia?). The red states are an anchor around our neck. We need to cut them loose.

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u/whoibehmmm 19h ago

Couldn't agree more. They've been holding us back for decades.

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u/NecroCannon 16h ago

Even before all of this I decided to move from Mississippi because there’s genuinely no future here, the state refuses to progress to grow and will take two steps back just to make sure it stays that way.

Meanwhile I look at Illinois, where I’m going to, and the Gov is on Trump’s ass and also doing trade negotiations behind Trump’s back around tariffs

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u/whoibehmmm 15h ago

Good on you for getting out! My personal feelings about Newsom and Pritzker aside, all blue state govs should be following their lead.

And I know lots of leftists will argue "we should be moving TO red states to flip them" but fuck that. Their majority vote that way because they want to stay that way. After this circus of an election I am done trying to make them see the light. If you want to live in a place that actively tries to move forward then you're just going to have to pick up and move to those places.

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u/NecroCannon 15h ago

I’m not out yet but I’m 2-3 months from it!

But it’s exactly how I feel now, and the thing about my town is, it has a whole famous athlete tied to it but with that spot light still barely does anything with it. I can’t even stand by the “remember where you came from and support your home town” stance, there was so much racial bullshit it took me graduating and learning more about the world to see that my area has hardly even fucking moved past segregation. It’s baked into minds here like it was just 20 years ago or some shit.

What kind of educated person wants to settle down where they feel like they’re surrounded by idiots stuck in the past? These states deserve to fall at this point

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u/whoibehmmm 14h ago

I am very happy for you and those 2-3 months will pass in a flash. I grew up in the South. Fuck that, lol. I want to live in places where people dream of moving forward. Have a great life in your new city!

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u/sabinabj 11h ago

Welcome to Illinois! We love you!

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u/TehMephs 19h ago

+2 from this household

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 18h ago

We can then just invade, liberate the red states, and make them territories without actual voting power. So we'll have a US again but with an updated constitution and better voters.

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u/whoibehmmm 17h ago

Liberate them? They vote for the policies that keep them in the stone age, it's what they want. They should just form their own dream coalition where they have God but no education, healthcare and technology and their blue voters can come to our side.

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u/donkeyrocket 16h ago

As someone who lives in a strong blue spot within a deep red state, I depressingly get the sentiment but keep in mind that there are people everywhere that voted for this while others are caught within states with rural red rule.

The Democrat stronghold of Massachusetts that had the strongest Harris vote still saw 36% voting for Trump.

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u/whoibehmmm 16h ago

Oh, I know, and I feel you. Every single state no matter how "red" or "blue" can't be distilled down to just that. In a world where blue states could actually form their own government, there would likely be a lot of blue voters trapped in red states because moving isn't that easy in reality. And vice versa.

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 14h ago edited 7h ago

Their kids don't deserve that though. Most of their daughters probably won't want to get raped by an older man when they're 14 and married off. This way of life they're so desperately trying to protect is just... deplorable. It cannot be practiced without hurting innocents because being allowed to hurt innocents to feel powerful is the point.

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u/raptosaurus 15h ago

They meant liberate in the same way the US liberated Iraq

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

Christian Afghanistan hahaha

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u/bejeesus Mississippi 16h ago

I'm starting to think some of y'all aren't as progressive as you claim. Mississippi is almost 40% black almost none of whom vote for any of this nonsense. But fuck em because they're a minority. Fuck my gay sister and my trans cousin and me and my wife. All who voted for Harris but have been unfortunately enough to be born in a red state.

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u/Vyar New Jersey 15h ago

I mean at some point you have to realize the state is lost, right? Republicans have the majority of Mississippi residents convinced that it's in their best interests to vote red for generations, they don't want to vote blue to make things better. Their Senators and Representatives in the federal government make our lives worse.

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u/bejeesus Mississippi 14h ago

I dunno, it was my understanding progressives are supposed to lift and help folks who needed it. Not abandon them. Cause the flood of refugees y'all end up getting would probably cripple your economies anyways. Not to mention the war that would start as well.

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u/Vyar New Jersey 14h ago

We've been trying. If it was going to work, Mississippi would have flipped purple or blue by now. As far as I'm aware, it has never been close to turning away from red.

Abraham Lincoln once said that a house divided against itself cannot stand. That's where we've been at for a while now. Progressives trying to bring our country into the modern era to match our European cousins, while regressives call themselves "conservatives" and keep throwing a tantrum about not getting their way, even though "their way" consists of one simple premise: "We get to do whatever we want, and you get to do whatever we tell you." We've got red states that are worse off than some third-world countries but their residents are convinced it would be worse if a liberal was in charge, so they accept it.

Europeans have healthcare and most basic needs met. We could do that, but we waste money on defense spending and other forms of "corporate welfare" designed to further widen the wealth gap and funnel billions to people who are already billionaires. We keep calling ourselves the "greatest country in the world" while millions of our own people starve so some CEO can buy a third yacht. America is a shithole country for anyone who's not obscenely wealthy.

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u/MaddyKet 7h ago

We could afford to help the refugees because we’d be keeping all our tax dollars, not seeing it go to prop up red states. Personally, if we did get to the point of the blue states seceding, I want the blue refugees in red states to have help relocating.

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u/whoibehmmm 9h ago

At what point do you say "Man, I think the life of my family and I would just be better elsewhere?" and make that move? Do you think that progressives are going to sweep in and flip these deep red states with hopes and prayers? Your state is controlled by people who want to keep things exactly the way they have been for the past hundred years and they will fight to keep it that way. Why do we always have to be the ones to extend that hand? They are a lost cause.

If you want to find a place where your gay sister and trans cousin would be and feel safer, then leave. Blue states will be much more accepting. But don't blame progressives. They are not holding you there at gunpoint.

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u/King-Snorky Georgia 13h ago

EVERY STATE IS A PURPLE STATE. The United States as a country is as fucked as it is right now due in large part to our archaic FPTP Electoral College system, which leaves a massive portion of people living in a state that ultimately gives away all its electoral votes to the other candidate.

  • Kamala actually got more votes from people in states she lost than from states she won in 2024. ~52% (~38.9 million) of her ~75 million votes came from so called "red states/districts", making up about 38% of those states' total votes.
  • A third (~26.4 million) of Trump's 77.3 votes came from so-called "blue states/districts", also comprising about 40% of those states total votes.

So, let's take the ridiculous scenario where the States/districts that went to Trump in 2024 all seceded, taking all their current residents and forming a new Confederate States of America v2.0. The election results tell us that around 40% of people in each country, 65 million people in total, would want to move to the other country.

Source: Did the math myself. Nebraska of course would find itself in an interesting East/West Berlin situation in the area surrounding Omaha.

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 7h ago

That's the real issue with any proposed geographic division.

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u/bejeesus Mississippi 16h ago

Sure as long as I don't have to pay taxes if you won't let me vote.

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u/VermillionEclipse 12h ago

Will you take refugees from red states?

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u/whoibehmmm 10h ago

Absolutely. Come on over!

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u/MaddyKet 7h ago

Yes, if I was in charge, that’s always been part of my plan. We’d certainly have the money since it’s not going to the entire state of Kentucky anymore.

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u/The_Kielbasa_Kid 9h ago

Ever since they lost the War of Northern Agression

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u/MissRepresent 18h ago

They keep us poor in red states, so we can't afford to move..wish I could leave

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u/randypupjake California 16h ago

Good news!

You aren't the only ones who can't leave. There are other Americans who can't get passports because of Trump

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u/espressocycle 18h ago

I think New England and California could both secede while maintaining state lines. The rest of the country is too divided.

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u/AiBestGirl95 17h ago

Oregon and Washington could form Cascadia

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u/espressocycle 17h ago

The eastern parts of both states would object. A lot of them already want to join Idaho.

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u/MaddyKet 7h ago

Guess then the new country of Cascadia could redraw the borders of where California, Oregon, and Washington end.

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u/tamman2000 Maine 16h ago

Secession would be really difficult, with how intertwined the states are, and federal facilities being spread out all over, etc...

I would love to see a coalition of blue states form. The coalition could create agencies independent of the federal government to backfill all the functions that Trump is taking away.

But if states do start to leave. I really hope my blue tinted, but not solid blue state joins

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

Dude check out r/RepublicofNE they are a registered non-profit in your area.

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u/SharpCookie232 16h ago

Well Trump's closing a lot of the federal facilities, so that solves that problem.

I agree that we should chose what to fund ourselves. I want to properly fund our national parks, libraries, museums, and social safety net, but I don't want to pay federal taxes and then pay a second time through the state. That's taxation without representation. We need to withhold our federal taxes and I don't think Trump will take that well - his whole administration is just a tax grab.

Secession seems like the only way to go.

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u/tamman2000 Maine 15h ago

I think the coalition I mentioned is a first step down that road. It's hard to withhold your federal taxes when the federal government is in the banks and the taxes are predominantly taken by withholdings from paychecks. If the blue states create a parallel, but regulated with the consumer in mind, banking system, then it's harder for the feds to get our money against our will

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u/amisslife Canada 13h ago

I've mentioned this before, but this might be where you can do what's called an "Interstate Compact."

Basically, states band together to get stuff done. I've long thought it might be beneficial to do on a regional scale (e.g. New England) or for an issue like healthcare, but I think you're onto something here.

They can bully any one of you - they might even be able to bully most states simultaneously. But they cannot bully all of you at the same time if you band together.

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u/Duna_The_Lionboy 19h ago

They need to lift themselves up by their own bootstraps for once.

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u/1ndiana_Pwns 17h ago

Blue states seceding? The United States undergoing balkanization?

I'm not against this, shockingly

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u/MasterChildhood437 18h ago

Unfortunately the vast amount of space between California and the eastern blue states makes it challenging to become a singular entity. Likely New England either becomes its own thing or partners with New York and its sphere of influence.

I see this as roughly being the way things go in the next decade, since the differences between ideologies are irreconciliable. Five or six different nations resulting in the end, with California, New York, Texas, and Florida being the major territories.

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

Canada connects us like a horseshoe.

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u/MasterChildhood437 16h ago

That would require becoming Canada, and I think more people don't want to do that than do.

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u/trailstomper 15h ago

New England + New York sounds good to me, as a Mainer. Call it 'Greater New England' or 'The Republic of the Northeast' or freaking 'Yankeeland' for all I care. We'd make a great little country!

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

r/RepublicofNE is for New Englanders only.

We New Yorkers don't want them because they cheat in the NFL and brigade our subreddits. We have our own independence movement.

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u/MaddyKet 6h ago

Good luck surviving completely alone New York. New England would gladly accept you, but also doesn’t need you.

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

New England has a registered non-profit to become their own country: r/RepublicofNE

I'm in New York and I know we're a decade behind New England in starting our own movement but we're trying our hardest to recruit enough supporters and volunteers at r/NYEXIT so that some day we will have our own website, fb, instagram, and fundraise to become a registered non-profit.

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u/Inside-Palpitation25 17h ago

I just said yesterday, that If a democrat ever wins again, I want them to say that the Blue states are Tired of giving the red states money, that the red states will only get back in Fed money, what they PAY!

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

Right?? We have proportional representation, why not proportional taxation and allotments?

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u/i_love_pencils 19h ago

United States of Canadia?

How aboot no?

If you want in, you’re becoming provinces…

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u/Zjarrr 18h ago edited 18h ago

This is why I think an independent nation (or a few nations) that closely ally themselves to Canada is the way to go. As a Minnesotan I have always felt closer to Canadians then I have with most of my countrymen, but I definitely understand that the feeling isn't mutual after threatening to annex you and then placing tariffs on you for no reason

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u/i_love_pencils 18h ago

Well put…

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u/amisslife Canada 13h ago

Pretty much. This might end up being what we have to consider, if the US as a whole does not change course soon.

Honestly, if one or two states wanted to become provinces, we could probably do that. But any more than that? Just become your own country; we can have a close alliance, maybe even do an EU-style thing.

I enjoyed my time in Minnesota when I visited, and although it'd be kind of nice on one hand to have you join, it might be even better to just make your own country and we can be best friends/lovers in the night.

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u/Im_Not_Important 19h ago

The provence of New England does have a ring to it

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u/DOG_DICK__ 18h ago

I guess France will provide a Provence if we're committed to that spelling.

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u/cyanescens_burn 18h ago

Consider giving northern NH, VT, and ME to Quebec. Culturally they have some French roots right?

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u/SharpCookie232 15h ago

The new provinces of New England, New York (which includes New Jersey and Delaware),the Great Lakes, and Cascadia out west.

I feel bad for Colorado though.

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

Meh it's up to them to ally with New Mexico and start their own movement.

If California, Cascadia, New England, and New Amsterdam have our own movements, Laurentians and Sonorans need to take note.

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u/NotASalamanderBoi I voted 19h ago

Fine by me.

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u/KarmicDevelopment 16h ago

I'd happily be the province of IL in CA at this point.

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u/MaddyKet 6h ago

I’m not opposed. Can we be the New England Province?

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u/ThePhoenixus 18h ago

It's nice in theory but I have a bridge to sell you if you think Trump MAGA would let go peacefully.

Not to mention that theres no such thing as a pure red or blue state. Even the most blue states have about 30-40% of people who voted Republican, and the most red states have 30-40% people who vote Democrat.

In terms of numbers, there's more Republicans in states like New York and California than there are the total population of states like Alabama and Oklahoma. And vice versa theres more democrats in Florida and Texas than there are the total people in states like Maine and Massachusetts.

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

It might be an India / Pakistan type of situation, which would be unpleasant, but that's better than the alternative. If it does come to civil war, we already know how that ends and the last time we didn't have the west coast. It would be quick work.

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u/JeanLucPicardAND 15h ago

It's nice in theory but I have a bridge to sell you if you think Trump MAGA would let go peacefully.

Don't act like that's purely a MAGA thing. The secession question was resolved back in 1865. No one gets to leave.

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u/TheAnalogKid18 18h ago

Gotta include VA too.

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

It would be kind of awkward if we took DC.

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u/MaddyKet 6h ago

DC is 99.9% blue, so really it’s ours right? They can relocate to the “Winter White House”.

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u/theapeboy 14h ago

The East Coast and West Coast secede in partnership. PINCER MOVE.

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u/nucking_futs_001 19h ago

Let's all be Canada!

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u/notsofunonabun 19h ago

Thank you for using “loose” correctly.

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u/Etrigone California 17h ago

I do wonder, if we did secede, would he send the military in ala Russian & Ukraine? I can totally see that.

I mean I could see him in one breath - cuz supposedly America hates California and all we are/stand for - even kicking us out & saying they're better off without us. But then, next breathe, the above.

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

It's unknown but I do know someone who wouldn't lift a finger to stop CA: Marjorie Taylor Greene.

A large percentage of Republicans want a peaceful national divorce so that they can be a one party state in Jesusland.

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u/early_birdy 17h ago

As a Canadian, I would agree to such a arrangement. It would be the best of both world for both of us IMHO.

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u/PaulTheMerc 18h ago

Learn the basics. If you're joining Canada, we use the term Provinces(or Territories)

Canada & the United Territories has a nice ring to it.

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u/MasterChildhood437 18h ago

Canada & the United Territories

Sounds like a 90s fantasy cartoon.

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u/rubs_tshirts 17h ago

Expand it a bit, Canada & United Nations and Territories rolls off the tongue

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

"territories" sounds like we're homesteaders or something. How about the United Federation of Canada and the American States?

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u/darkstar3333 18h ago

As a Canadian, wed rather you retain your independence and identity. Your past is important.

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

A lot of our past sucks. I'd like to focus on the future.

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u/jinreeko 18h ago

Can I come too? I live in Pennsylvania but definitely want the middle half of our state (or really anything an hour outside Pittsburgh/Philly and to a lesser degree Lancaster) firebombed

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

We might have to cut PA in half.

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u/MaddyKet 6h ago

I want to keep Philly because of the historical significance and value.

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u/bobdob123usa 17h ago

The Canadian Provinces of America

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

I don't care if we call it Fredonia, as long as we get away from Trump.

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u/iamnotcreative 17h ago

What sucks is being in a dark red state with blue parts. The Lake Erie coast of Ohio is varying degrees of blue; I do not want to be left in Gilead after everyone leaves

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

That's true. Some people might have to be given some $$$ to resettle.

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

Why don't you just move to Illinois?

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u/fragilemuse 17h ago

Canada is Canada, we will never be the "United States" of anything.

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u/thefudd 17h ago

Fuck yeah

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u/KarmicDevelopment 16h ago

lightly kicks dirt on the ground while looking down

Can IL join this new club?

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u/SharpCookie232 16h ago

We couldn't leave without Chicago! I think the whole "blue wall" should leave. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_(United_States))

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u/Appropriate_Golf2558 15h ago

inb4 all the MAGAts that said “if you don’t like it, you can get out” start whining about how blue states leaving hurts them

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u/Fif112 Canada 11h ago

As a Canadian, you really don’t need us.

As much as I’d love to have you as a part of our country, you really don’t need us for anything you’d be doing alone.

Happy for the trade, and to work with you as whatever you exit the states and if you wanted to combine I don’t think anyone would be that upset about it (on our side)

But again, you guys would be more than fine on your own and don’t need to be a part of our country.

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

Why don't you just join the r/RepublicofNE they're an organized non-profit in your area.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/ticketsonsalenow 16h ago

No, they wouldnt.

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u/slackerzinc 17h ago

Not big on the name, but we (Canada) should do this

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

It could be just plain Canada for all I care. I just want out.

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u/slackerzinc 17h ago

Its almost a bad dream, hard to believe some people think what is happening is ok

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u/Nirvana-Rose 16h ago

Wondering if I should leave Michigan or maybe as a whole we are still as blue as the rest of the

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u/SharpCookie232 16h ago

A lot of the Great Lakes area is part of the blue wall (NH is too, despite this map). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_(United_States))

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

You should leave Michigan and move to Illinois.

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u/rorykoehler 16h ago

Join the EU. It would be the best outcome and all sane countries are welcome

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u/MaddyKet 6h ago

Haha could you imagine? On the 250th anniversary of America, New England secedes and returns to England.

1

u/brihere 13h ago

Maybe a province or territory… we want none of the United States rhetoric, culture or other crap tainting us in any way here!! … but only Deep blue states where voters are 90% liberal.

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u/katgyrl 11h ago

No thanks. Sorry 😬

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u/will_waltz 10h ago

It’s time for them to make their own way.

Edit: (the red states)

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u/MaddyKet 7h ago

The United Coasts of America*

*and its blue islands (Colorado, MI, MN etc)

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u/finneyblackphone 18h ago

Canada don't want you.

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u/Ridry New York 18h ago

LOL, imagine pretending any country wouldn't take the GDP of CA.

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u/Kingreaper 18h ago

Plenty of democracies wouldn't - because you aren't just getting the income, you're also getting the people and their cultural influence.

California couldn't really "join" Canada and have it remain Canada - the population of the two is approximately equal, so you'd end up with effectively a new nation of Calida.

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u/Infamous-Mixture-605 18h ago

It's not the GDP, it's the massive cultural and political imbalance that taking on California would have for any country.

Let's say Massachusetts joined Canada, it would become the third most populous province and second largest by GDP.

Adding California would double Canada's population, while also adding a state/province whose GDP is much larger than Canada's as a whole. We have enough moaning here from Westerners that Ontario and Quebec decide elections, how will Canadians feel when California decides our elections?

Canada would probably be better served by having New England/Northeastern US being its own country and being a close ally and reliable trade partner.

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u/TheSavageDonut 18h ago

I think you should let the Canadian people decide by putting it on your next election ballot -- "should we offer to annex California - yay or ney. We would never have to go to Florida ever again."

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u/atticusfinch1973 18h ago

Canada would be happy to have you.

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u/morethanjustanalien 17h ago

I think you’ll have to shack up with NY

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u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

That could be a fun time. We're in!

0

u/PenImpossible874 New York 10h ago

NY resident here: We don't want them. We have our own independence movement.

We don't take kindly to people who cheat in the NFL and brigade our subreddits.

0

u/SAHMultrA1981 18h ago

And maybe even some cities that are affected by gerrymandering? Like lil ol' Austin Texas? We don't want this..

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u/ScubaCycle Texas 18h ago

Don't forget Round Rock? We usually do the right thing....

0

u/JeanLucPicardAND 16h ago

No one gets to secede. We already fought an entire war over this. Without the red states, you're going to be importing most of your food anyway.

0

u/MrPWAH 14h ago edited 13h ago

The blue states should secede.

People should stop bringing up pipe dreams like this as if they're possible, it's just a circlejerk at this point. Yes, many blue states are net donors to the federal government, but that doesn't mean they would be functional as a country if they were independent. Geography alone would be a huge obstacle to overcome when states like Colorado become islands and logistical routes are cut off. Hell, there will probably also be a mass exodus of asylum seekers, if these replies are anything to go off of. The population explosion would put massive strain on blue state economies. Plus, a lot of California's wealth is because of its position as a trade gateway. Leaving the US would require them to broker a trade agreement with its former border states.

-2

u/mrrobfriendly 18h ago

Can blue counties in red states join also? Harris County (Houston) in Texas has a larger population than Louisiana. They bring a great deal of petrochemical production.

•

u/MaddyKet 6h ago

My immediate response is no, we have to draw the line somewhere and we would relocate you. But then again…NASA is in Houston so might need to make an exception. But we also don’t need to get into a war with Texas.

1

u/SharpCookie232 17h ago

It would be nice to keep everyone who wants to join and to have access to the Gult of Mexico (see what I did there). Maybe we could redraw some of the state lines.