Dealing with insane chip damage on Lance?

[u/Traditional_Tune2865]

Basically the title. Really high chip damage wasn't really a thing in World until the final couple monsters if you had a decent build, but in Wilds I'm already coming up against really high chip damage, with max lvl guard, against attacks from monsters like tempered Gore and Zoh Shia. I've been trying to hit more perfect guards and play some evade lance, but I don't play lance so I can dodge attacks or the need to have perfect timing against half the attacks from these monsters. My understanding of Guard Up is that the reduction in damage is only for unblockable attacks so I don't think that would help any either.

Does lance now just require perfect timing in order to keep you from sheathing every couple attacks to heal or am I missing something?

[u/storage_account69]

Just perfect guard everything. The timing is extremely generous

[u/Asmo2097 → u/storage_account69]

Perfect guard is actually bugged at the moment. Against moves with very large knockback it can actually increase chip damage when compared to guarding normally with guard lvl 3.

It gives +20 to your block level, but is not stacking with the guard skill at all.

[u/Ancient-Blacksmith19 → u/Asmo2097]

wait srsly? is that why today when i did a random T arkveld i got knocked back even though i thought i perfect blocked it?

is it bugged with every weapon or just lance?

[u/Asmo2097 → u/Ancient-Blacksmith19]

Another redditor did a more detailed investigation. Here a link to the original post:

whats_happening_with_perfect_block_here

[u/Traditional_Tune2865 → u/storage_account69]

Imma try the other suggestions first because Lance has never, and should never, required perfect timing minus adept lance in mhgu. The shield is kinda a big part of the weapon, and if perfect guarding is suddenly a hard requirement then kinda sucks ass for the Lance's identity since they decided lance and gunlance weren't the only weapons that should have the most powerful shields and gave it to everything that can perfect guard.

[u/fayt03 → u/Traditional_Tune2865]

because Lance has never, and should never, required perfect timing minus adept lance in mhgu

Chip damage has always been an issue with lance, even in World, it's just that we had health augments to heal it back up while attacking. Note that 5-star tempered monsters do significantly more damage than 3-star versions, so the game rewards the use of perfect blocks which i think is fine.

They've leaned on this with Instablock in Risebreak so it's not surprising for Wilds to really push for more timing-based mechanics. It fits with lance's reactive playstyle.

[u/Traditional_Tune2865 → u/fayt03]

I tried a different weapon for base Rise and never got around to Sunbreak so can't speak for it, but in World I didn't really even need to worry about chip damage for the most part until Alatreon and Fatalis - not base game HR content.

And the game doesn't just reward perfect blocks - it's starting to actively punish not using them.

Edit - also not sure all the "jUsT perfect gUarD brO" comments actually bothered reading my post - because I wasn't asking for advice on if I should be perfect guarding. I understand that solves the chip damage issue. I was asking if they made perfect guarding a hard requirement for Lance or if I was missing something, and they more or less did and I wasn't missing anything.

[u/fayt03 → u/Traditional_Tune2865]

It's not really a hard requirement, but it's definitely optimal. Since we lack health augments the only way to heal chip damage is to sheathe and chug, which is standard even in base World.

Tbf only apex tier tempered monsters even deal notable chip damage, and we're expected to play at least semi-optimal at that point so i wouldn't consider the game punishing non-perfect blocks

[u/fayt03 → u/[deleted]]

Your definition of 'hard requirement' is skewed. You can forget perfect blocks, build for defense with divine blessing or w/e and just turtle with the regular guard. It's just gonna be sub-optimal. The game isn't punishing you for not using perfect blocks just as it's not punishing GS players for not using offsets.

If you were a lance main in World then you know the basics of counter thrusting on reaction against incoming attacks. It's literally the same with perfect blocks because the timing is very lenient.

And yes, i admit i'm giving unsolicited advice but hey, i thought it was a better option than saying "no, get good with perfect blocks or pick a new weapon."

[u/Traditional_Tune2865 → u/fayt03]

Your definition of 'hard requirement' is skewed. You can forget perfect blocks, build for defense with divine blessing or w/e and just turtle with the regular guard. It's just gonna be sub-optimal.

You're totally right, hard requirement wasn't the best way to put it. It does kinda feel that way though tbh.

In World if I wanted to play sub-optimal I could max out guard related skills and until very late in Iceborne the chip damage wasn't that noticeable the majority of the time (and when it was Safi armor came in handy - I definitely need to try a few health gain armor sets). I never needed to even consider Divine Blessing or rely on its rng. In Wilds I can max out guard related skills, and some attack combos still chunk away 3/4ths of my health bar to chip damage in like 2 seconds, all while I'm not spending those precious weapon gem slots on more optimal skills. That's not even sub-optimal at that point - it's just bad.

And yeah, unsolicited advice is better than the couple other people that completely missed the assignment - you're totally right, that's my bad. But what you said there at the end is kinda my point and what one other user basically said - in order to play Lance more or less functionally perfect guards are indeed going to be required. Other skills either aren't cutting it (Guard, Guard Up) or aren't reliable (Divine Blessing) - so why even bother with Lance when several other weapons also get access to one of its most powerful tools? I love the weapon so that's why - but it really sucks seeing my health evaporate because I wanted to actually use the shield.

[u/Lahk74 → u/[deleted]]

They were trying to be helpful and you had the option to just ignore their comment. But you chose to be a rude asshole instead. Nice.

[u/Traditional_Tune2865 → u/Lahk74]

Nah man tons of people have been helpful, but a handful have given less than useless advice of "LuL juSt pErfEcT bLoCk nO cHiP" because they apparently couldn't be bothered to actually read my post. Imo that's rude, but you can be upset over my attitude all you want.

Oh and btw you had the option to just ignore my comment, but you chose to be rude insulting asshole. Nice.

[u/Lahk74 → u/Traditional_Tune2865]

Just keep your headass advice to yourself, thanks.

[u/Traditional_Tune2865 → u/Lahk74]

Lmao he did not like that 🤣

[u/syd_fishes → u/[deleted]]

It's kinda blowing my mind that someone would have a problem using what is one of the best new mechanics in the game on the most fitting weapon for it. Blocking is super strong, the trade off is you need to time it. Others have mentioned the guard counter which is similar. Both require timing and seem to be the new identity for lance, which I personally think is good. I would maybe just switch weapons if it bothers you that much.

[u/Skelefellah → u/syd_fishes]

They're trying to express a playstyle difference.

Traditional Guard (holding R2 to just absorb the attack) is actually worse than it has ever been. It has been redesigned to take more chip damage than it has in the past.

Guard sets in prior gens could just hold R2 to be largely invincible against most attacks in the game. Now most attacks will chip you at least a little bit.

You are right that shield weapons now have new options in Perfect Guard (and Charge Counter on Lance), and that those tools are extremely strong.

But those tools play differently than traditional Guard. You have to time them. And whiffing with them can kill you (e.g. Releasing Charge Counter at the wrong time conveys no iframes at all, you'll just eat the incoming attack).

Classic Guard on the other hand can just hold R2 any time you're not sure if you're about to take a hit. Frankly it's a lot easier to play. And for people that enjoy tank fantasies, it can feel really empowering to have that level of invincibility available on demand.

So OP is asking if there's anything they can do to prop up a classic Guard playstyle and offset its new opportunity costs.

"Use Perfect Guard / Charge Counter" is, yes, what the new game design does emphasize, and is the most efficient answer to incoming damage now. But it also doesn't really answer OP's question.

They asked for best ways to bake a pie, and a lot of the replies say to just make a cake.

[u/Traditional_Tune2865 → u/syd_fishes]

If anyone else has such great pointers like "I didn't read the thread so here's this thing you can do- the thing you're specifically asking about not using" maybe just keep your headass advice to yourself, thanks.

There ya go, since you seemed to have missed it the first time.

Kinda blowing my mind some people in the community are this tone deaf.

[u/Sigyrr → u/Traditional_Tune2865]

You really should try sunbreak lance, I think it is one of the best iterations in the series history. Though it is pretty dependent on insta/perfect block. Elemental is viable, leaping thrust is great, charged sweep has a great motion value, insta block is fantastic and your counter attack is good and pretty fast, you can chip heal with bloodrite. Also you might really like shield tackle I switched off cause of leaping thrust from element but its pretty great.

[u/Traditional_Tune2865 → u/Sigyrr]

Me and a buddy are planning on going back to Rise and playing through Sunbreak at some point, and when we do I'm definitely going with lance. Maybe by that point the perfect guarding requirement won't bother me as much. It's more the principle rather than the timing though so honestly I'm not sure how much it'll grow on me, but we'll see. It does feel pretty good to pull off during a combo at least lol.