Hi there! You described me, for the most part. Just a few months ago, my therapist informed me that I'm a perfectionist, and a whole lot of stuff clicked into place.
I can plan for things, and I can do stuff when I'm not in my head fussing about it--but when I overplan or overthink any situation I get paralyzed by wanting it to go EXACTLY RIGHT. And knowing that it probably won't, I have a really hard time taking that first simple step, even it if would be pretty easy.
Nothing wrong with planning! But when it comes time to act, don't hesitate. You have to train yourself to DO, not THINK. When you're actually making progress you won't be obsessing over it being perfect because you'll be focused on working.
If you catch yourself hesitating to start, don't "set a timer and start when it goes off" or "watch one more Youtube video" just fucking GO. You'll feel a million times better when you're working.
Just take the first step! Dig in and GO and build that beautiful momentum!
That's 100% spot on. Manynpeople seem to have this. It seems that the feelingsnof accomplishment are achieved only by thinking and thus actual reality suffers from it. It's not "overthinking" things, though, but more like "living in a dreamworld".
Apparently, despite what the man in the video said about "living in the now", many people don't actually live in the now, but in their heads.
I believe the "living in the now" you're referring to is existing in the present. "The present" holds a lot of meaning already for me that you might not have instilled upon it so I'll try to briefly outline my learnings of it.
Nothing exists outside of the present: the "past" existed --past tense-- it only existed as it had unfolded, your memory of it is just a memory of events taken place, the more you learn about how memory works the more you learn how fickle and biased it is.
The future is only a prediction, it does not exist yet.
So that leaves you with the only moment which is the present aka now.
That's not to say planning for the future and learning from the past do not have their place, but they should not inhibit your actions in the present by absorbing your attention entirely.
To conclude, the only moment you have the power to act is right now. It's always right now, aka the present.
Buddhism and its similar teachings are centred around this even when they choose to phrase it with different wording.
If this is of interest for your learning then the book The Power of Now is centred entirely around this, it's a fairly hard thing to teach something as intangible as the present but it does a fair work of dancing circles around the intangible slowly nudging you to the center. I think I might reread it.
Depending what you mean by "living in dreamland" I believe it does.
If you're daydreaming then you're not focusing on the present moment, you're either recalling past memories, predicting the future or generating imaginary scenarios, none of which is focused on the present moment at hand.
yes. are you sure you actually understood the comment you initially responded to? no one - at least i'm not - counters this. when you're in your head then you're not in the now.
My position was never intended to counter anything, I just get excited when I see people talking about peoples lack of present awareness and I always chime in with my 2 cents even if it isn't exactly in the same vein as the initial comment.
Oh, no, I just noticed you wrote "manynpeople" and I realized that happens to entire sentences when I try to write on mobile. N's for spaces, ugh, drives me up the wall when I have to go back with my ham-fingers and try to correct that stuff.
I hear that! My house is perennially dirty, but I do clean it once in a while. Starting anything is the hardest part. Even some days at work it's incredibly difficult to just go. But once I do, I can focus on it all day long and stay on task, and I feel so much better when I do. Once I start those dishes, I just go and go and go. It's really easy but just getting to that point is a huge problem.
I count down because the time thing doesn't work. If I say I'm going to do it at 5:30 oftentimes I'll lose track of time or maybe just subconsciously "forget" to look at the clock.
But, if I'm procrastinating and I say to myself you have 10 seconds, or 60 seconds, and start counting down, I don't lose track of that. When I get to 0 I have to move.
This is really smart! The whole problem with setting a timer or watching a video is that you lose that motivation by distracting yourself. Then you're back at zero and have to build motivation all over again.
Counting up (or down) has to be a really good way to stay focused, get your mind in the right place and get ready to go. I like it!
Eyyyy this guy gets it! People need to just work on developing better habits and learn to follow through on plans. Their brains ain't broken, just undisciplined
Lol, you literally just described the trap I constantly fall into. "I'll do it in 10 minutes" or "I'll still have 3 good hours to do this thing if I procrastinate until 9PM," only to find I never started and I'll either not get it done at all or get no sleep.
And now I shall upvote this great comment and completely forget about it within the hour, while continuing to do the exact things that are problematic over and over again.
I understand your perspective. It makes sense to act in order to be a functional human being. We should carry out our genetically coded proclivities in order to be happy during the brief time we are here on planet Earth. So logically and functionally it makes sense. Any psychologist would make the same argument because their responsibilities are to your mental health and functionality in society first and foremost.
But, I also understand Conrad's perspective. When he talks about thought, I don't think he is talking about thinking about future actions. I think he means thought in general. Thinking about the universe and your place in it, for example.
You might think and wonder whether any of our actions have any real consequence in the universe. I do not know anything about my great great great ... great grandfather, am I to suffer the same fate? Will I be lost into obscurity just like him? Will it become as if I never really existed at all? If a tree falls in a forest, and nobody hears it fall did the tree really fall?
You can generalize this logic to not only the individual, but all of humanity. Humanity will become extinct some day. The sun will turn into a Red Giant (as per the natural lifecycle of a star) and engulf the entirety of planet Earth along with all of humanity's artifacts. Did humanity ever really exist at all?
Considering such disturbing thoughts, maybe you are right, maybe we should not think, maybe we should simply carry out our genetic proclivities with utmost conscientiousness and be happy. Still, there is a part of me that wonders...
This is ultimately the best advice IMO. I personally believe that your attention span throughout the day is dependent on the very moment that you wake up and what/how an individual chooses to execute the start of their day.
Humans cannot sit on the thought of doing much of anything at all. You have to wake up and "go" -- as soon as you wake up.
That's a form of OCD, the one most people are familiar with. Then there's the other one described brilliantly by former NHLer Cory Hirsch (and the one u/pthalio is essentially referencing):
Here's what my therapist has told me. He talked about how many people who procrastinate because of perfectionism have a fixed mindset, as opposed to a growth mindset. You can google those phrases to read more about it, but the TLDR of how I understand it from what he has told me is that a person with a fixed mindset thinks that people basically have a predetermined ability, or in general things have some essential quality that does not change. A growth mindset realizes that people develop their traits over time, and that things in general are fundamentally dynamic/changing. I see a CBT therapist, so he challenges me to break down my thoughts and feelings to untangle any distortions that might come from my fixed mindset or from other distortions related to core beliefs and the anxieties that come from them. I'd definitely recommend seeing a therapist if you're even a little curious.
Other things I like to think about to understand it is the old cliche "it's about the journey, not the destination". A fixed mindset will keep you thinking about the destination (goal), and it's difficult to work towards it because you see yourself so far from it and you conclude that since you are so far away from that goal that you aren't really capable of the goal. A growth mindset doesn't allocate lots of mental bandwidth to the end goal, but rather basks in the potential for action and growth in the current moment. To me this seems to be parallel with the idea of living in the moment instead of being paralyzed with worry about the future or the past.
Yeah, I've learned that about myself over time, too. Running longer distances kind of showed me how it takes tiny steps to accomplish something and even then you have to keep doing it frequently to stay in shape.
So how does your therapist suggest you deal with this fixed mindset? Tackling things head on is not going to work because life is too complicated.
well all of the therapy kinda works together, so its not easy to simply answer your question. For me and the CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) that I am doing, it's a lot of learning about how your mind works so you can understand how it goes wrong, and then being cognizant of it going forward so you can intervene when you need to. What this looks like in practice is having a silent conversation with myself (or sometimes writing it down, especially when first learning this) where I examine the thoughts that give me negative emotions and ask myself what is the evidence I have to support that. My therapist helped me through this the first several times, but once you know what to look for its something that you can do for yourself. I found that a lot of the negative thought patterns I had were common across different issues, so it becomes easier to recognize and find what is wrong with your thinking and untangle it and rephrase the thought in a way that is not distorted. It's hard to work through an example that I'm sure could make sense to you since everyone's inner-monologue is different and I'm not a therapist or anything like that, but ultimately this practice helps me to stop helplessly ruminating and worrying, parce out the wheat from the chaff, and ultimatley take positive action in accordance with my values rather than being controlled by compulsive thoughts and unconscious deeply held beliefs that are not helpful or true.
This nails me right on the head. I would say my procrastination straight up until I was 27 or 28 was due to perfectionism. I knew in order to get an A i needed to study for 40 hours, but since I only had 39 or 38 hours I would procrastinate until I had only a few hours left.
As I got older I kinda realized that about myself and have fixed my procrastination and escapism problems through self-reflection on the subject. It's always a struggle, but thanks for your insight on the topic.
I use the growth mindset mentality with my students during counseling often. Even as young as 5. "I can't do (blank)" is a phrase that you typically hear kids say when they are feeling defeated over something challenging. I often tack on "right now" at the end of the phrase, and have them repeat the phrase back to me with the addition of "right now."
"I can't do math right now" is significantly more positive and it helps them visualize a more positive outcome and accept that everyone has challenges. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, but by working a little harder, we can improve on our deficits.
For adults, it's really similar. "I can't lose weight right now. But if I start by cutting out soda for a month, my goal will be much closer than it was before." Clearly there are some things we can't completely improve on, but that's part of the challenge. Accepting our weaknesses and improving other areas in our life to make living with our deficits easier.
i'm probably not the best at selling this idea, but it has been helpful for me and it might be helpful for you. if you want to read more about it and you're down to commit some time to it, read this book https://www.amazon.com/Procrastination-Why-You-What-About/dp/0738211702 or if you are interested and want less investment i'd say google the phrase fixed mindset vs growth mindset. Or not, just trying to help.
This seems like me a lot, except I've never found any goals at all that I have any desire or drive to reach in the first place.
I spent a summer in Canada once with a friend of my dad. He recently visited and he mentioned he felt I was very hard to please. I realize now it's because I basically don't want anything, whether its things or experiences.
Late to The party. The best thing I did in college was make my life a 24/7 clock. No matter what I was doing, I was constantly planning and doing. My mind was pretty much indefinitely on my studies, But I had to plan the fun as well. It pretty much became ride my mountain bike, smoke pot, swim, study, go to class, study, get stumped, smoke some more pot and contemplate the homework I couldn't complete and then add as much information as I could every moment. Go to parties, don't get too messed up. Get a group of like minded friends. This was the next big step. Started studying in small groups and making sure we all had our shit ready. This method of 24/7 concept helped me get my engineering degree. I learned to love the brick wall that held me back and embraced it. No need for perfectionism when you are constantly on the grind.
So what have you found to be the course of action?
I'm a classic perfectionist. One mantra that helps is reminding myself that doing something imperfectly is always better than doing nothing at all. I'm writing a book right now, and it's easy to get sucked into "I should do another round of revisions." forever. But then I remind myself that if I don't stop that, no one will read it and it is as if I hadn't written it at all.
Oh..my...god. this is exactly how i feel, like a 100% what im struggling with. I suspected it was because i was worried of failing - aka things not going the way exactly how i want - but ive started to change my mentality and focus on the task, the present, rather than worrying about the results.
If it makes you feel any better, I am afraid of the same thing. Maybe it's because my father instilled this desire in me succeed no matter what and anything less than making money and being successful is "failure." I am afraid of failing, thus I don't try.
Are you my husband? One of the smartest people I know and can't complete a damn thing because the he can't ever start because everything is not complete upfront.
Please I had no desire to make anyone feel ashamed. I just feel frustrated for him, not at him. The one thing I wish I could teach him, is that if you wait for perfection nothing gets started let alone finished. For full disclosure my problem is I don't start things because I am afraid I will fail. Same result different path.
Apologies, my comment was too breaf to be clear. I feel the same and wanted to express how I feel in my relationship because of this, you know, to share an insight. But I didn't mean it was in any way your fault.
I wish you two the best.
This is why I don't even worry about an end result and just focus on doing what I'm currently doing exactly how I want it done. When you free yourself from the future it becomes infinitely easier to take action in the present. My perfectionism then becomes about refining the process of actions rather than the actions themselves.
I think will Smith had a story about not worrying about how big a project is, just doing each step to the best of your ability.
Holy shit, that makes so much sense. I've actually considered myself a bit of a perfectionist for a long time, but I never realised that this could be the reason for procrastination.
I always thought it was just stopping me from being happy with a near-perfect piece of work, to the point where I never felt happy calling it 'finished' (which I have been working on). But that could also be why I have trouble starting. I look ahead and see that it won't be perfect, so I don't want to start until I can foresee that it will be perfect.
Thank you for posting that. Now I know the issue, I can work on it. Now I know that all I need to do is power through the start, then the other part will kick in and not let me stop working on it until it's perfect (though I'll have to cut this short for practical reasons).
my therapist informed me that I'm a perfectionist, and a whole lot of stuff clicked into place. I can plan for things, and I can do stuff when I'm not in my head fussing about it--but when I overplan or overthink any situation I get paralyzed by wanting it to go EXACTLY RIGHT. And knowing that it probably won't, I have a really hard time taking that first simple step, even it if would be pretty easy.
This is exactly my problem in a nutshell. Every job I've had for the last 10 years I have had this issue come up over and over and over again and I cannot seem to find a way out of the death spiral.
I actually just got a write-up from my manager yesterday and during his "counseling" session, he informed me that the "best," as I've called myself, doesn't end up in his office all the time.
I go to my job with the intent of being the best. I want to do everything right and be the most amazing thing since sliced bread, but then I see all these people who fuck everything up. They do it wrong, take shortcuts, and just don't give a shit. I do my best to fix it and make it right, then inform them about the proper way I think things should be done according to basic common logic and I get in trouble.
It's happened for years and I have no idea how to deal with the problem. I don't know how to just "shut off" my desire to do things correctly. It's an obsession. I feel like if I just stop caring then I drop down to their level and I just cannot bring myself to do that. But if I don't, I am caught up in this desire to make everything and everyone around me better - an impossible task.
Do you have any advise on dealing with something like this?
I don't know your job or your total situation, but it sounds like you're trying to do managerial work in addition to your own duties.
There's nothing at all wrong with a desire to do things correctly, but it sounds like you have a strong desire to have things done correctly too, and that's what's getting you in trouble. If you're not in a position of authority over the people you're advising, that can create a lot of friction.
You can't fix everything and everybody, and by trying to expand your scope to deal with other people's problems you're reducing your ability to excel at what you're supposed to be doing by splitting your focus. Try to put on some metaphorical blinders. Let other people do their own thing their own way. If they're wrong, let the managers tell them as much and try to fix things in their own way.
Think of it like taking a test in school. Focus on your own paper. It doesn't matter if the kid next to you is fucking up an equation--you shouldn't even be looking at their paper. It's the teacher's job to teach, and it's your job to get an A on that test.
I go with approach of "time run". It's not about doing my work or project to perfection, it's about making it close to perfection with given time because if you don't finish it, it's worse overall. Also plans are easier to execute if you break them into pieces and pace them out, in exchange starting ahead much as possible. Because something can always go wrong somewhere in between and no point thinking 12th step when you might need to re-adjust in between.
That doing and not thinking is the most important part. I was also dealing with similar difficulties, however meditation made me relax more and stress/rationalize/think less which also gave me more emotions which translates to more willpower to do things. If you want to get started it's really easy just try out the app headspace or calm which guide you through the process. It might be hard at first and you might think this isn't for me I don't need this or this isn't helping. But give it some time and it will change you, make you more like that inner child in you from the past that had ambitions and dreams
Yes! This was a huge revelation for me too. I tend not to use the word when describing it to other people, though, because it gets misinterpreted as a humblebrag.
I've started getting better at forcing myself to tackle those first easy steps, but that shit is still hard. If you figure it out, let me know :D
What if you're just a perfectionist about certain things? I can definitely call myself a perfectionist...about things I care about. Cleaning the apartment? Not one of those things. But I usually associate perfectionism with having everything completely perfect and under control in ALL parts.
I thought that too! There's lots of stuff in my life that I don't really give much of a shit about being perfect, so I assumed that meant I wasn't a perfectionist. But I am!
The problem, for me, manifests in two different ways:
1) I don't care about certain things, because (to me) caring is exhausting. So it's easier to just say "I don't give a shit about that," and do a bad job. Then it's ok, because I'm not "really" trying.
2) I procrastinate about getting into new things I know I would care about, because I know how draining and exhausting it will be. Sure I could take a class and learn to play guitar, but I know I won't ever be happy with it unless I become an amazing guitarist. So why even start?
This really sounds like me. I'll stress so much over how to get things right, and then I'll realize it will never be as good as I want it to be, and end up being unable to start anything at all.
If I do start something I tend to end up getting frustrated or bored because I just can't get it right.
This basically extends to everything now. Even just watching TV shows. I know I'll have trouble focusing on it exclusively, browsing reddit on the side, etc. so I'll miss a bunch of stuff in the show and it will feel like mostly a waste of time. So my backlog of stuff I want to watch just grows and grows. Same with books, I'll often start daydreaming or thinking about something specific in the story and lose track.
I'm waiting to be investigated for ADD, but I fear it will be the same humiliating negative as when I was investigated for Autism(I apparently throw off a LOT of surface indicators of it). When doing the final interview with my parents along, and the psychologist(psychiatrist?) was asking about the childhood indicators it was basically "no, no, and no" to everything.
From what I know of the early-life indicators for any ADD I don't think much of any of them apply, especially since my mother is a special ed teacher that has worked with both autism and ADD/ADHD kids, and she would have noted if she'd seen it.
So at best I expect 'have it in writing' that that's not the issue. Something to check off the list of what might be wrong I guess.
It sucks feeling broken as hell, but nobody can find anything wrong other than general depression and anxiety. I find myself daydreaming that I have a brain tumor or anything else that could actually be treated and fix me. I dread the realization that there may be nothing clearly or obviously wrong that made me end up this way.
I'm sorry you feel broken. But I hope you don't give up on working on your mental health. You have to push and push (making appointments with a psychiatrist, getting tested, seeing a therapist, finding meds that are right for you) to get in control of these things, and the fact that you're starting with depression and anxiety will just make all of that even harder.
But it's really worth the effort! Best of luck, stranger.
I read the book "The Now Habit" and it helped me come to terms with this at least a little bit. I realized that you can have both the fear of failure and the fear of success at the same time. I'll be paralyzed and unable to do something because I think if I do poorly, I'll be thought less of...but if I do well then I'll be expected to always perform at that level and I'm afraid I can't.
So instead I put it off an perform mediocre so that I always have that to fall back on. It's horrible.
I have OCD but it's pretty mild and it mostly is concerned with certain body-focused behaviours and I don't really worry about cleaning or anything like that, and MOST stuff isn't about perfection, but I'll be damned if sometimes I start projects, imagine that the end result won't be right, and find myself unable to do ANYTHING AT ALL. That book talks about not even thinking about the end and just working on the next action, but it's hard as hell.
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u/[deleted] May 30 '17
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