r/politics • u/sweatycat New York • 20h ago

California to Negotiate Trade With Other Countries to Bypass Trump Tariffs

https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414
88.8k Upvotes

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8.1k

u/Automatic-Wonder-299 California 19h ago

On One hand, that’s pretty unconstitutional

On the other hand, the constitution has already been shredded at this point, so who care

894

u/IdkAbtAllThat America 19h ago

It's defacto secession. And m I'm all for it.

282

u/Mrmojorisincg Rhode Island 19h ago

Going back to articles of confederation state power. Republicans are getting what they wanted. Not working in their favor this time

20

u/NotLikeGoldDragons 18h ago

The nation collapsed under the Articles of Confederation, which then had to be replaced with a stronger federal govt in the Constitution. So.....there's that.

12

u/iKill_eu 17h ago

There's a fun irony in that conservatives have been preaching the wonders of small federal government for years.

Turns out if you give them what they want, the federal government cracks under the weight of the states.

5

u/NotLikeGoldDragons 15h ago

Which is what conservatives think they want. Until they get it. Wait until the tech-bro titans start having to deal with multiple state lawsuits because states now have different regulatory requirements. In the end they'll have to rebuild their platforms to conform to the most restrictive case, which will probably be CA.

It would be the supreme irony if by destroying the federal govt, all the businesses & tech platforms end up having to take their marching orders from California, which would undoubtedly be much more restrictive that the Federal rules had been previously.

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u/iKill_eu 15h ago

That'd be fucking rich.

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u/myfakesecretaccount 18h ago

Yep. You don’t get to trample on my State’s Rights as a Californian. Donald and all his cronies can get fucked.

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u/wetterfish 17h ago

It works in their favor. 

  1. Trump will never let ca secede. He’ll send in the military and order them to kill American citizens before that happens, and believe me, there are enough that would go along with it. 

  2. Even if CA left, it would mean republicans are guaranteed to win the presidency pretty much every year for the foreseeable future. 

6

u/Mrmojorisincg Rhode Island 16h ago

I’m pretty confident if there is any success in california doing this that other blue states are going to follow. That does not work in their favor

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u/wetterfish 14h ago

Fair. But I’m pretty confident that if blue states find success doing this, a literal civil war is a legitimate possibility because Trump will not let that happen. 

If that transpires, things will be bloody and awful for people in America. 

1

u/Mrmojorisincg Rhode Island 11h ago

Kind of a game of chicken. You could be right, but it also could be enough opposition pressure to force their hands into less extreme policies.

Unfortunately for all of us. Unless Trump does enough damaging and crazy shit, we’ll never see his following break from him. Or at least, the republicans that use him for power rather than the sycophants.

It has to get very bad for us to see any actual change be possible. It’s also possible it may cross that line and get bloody. What I do know is if his behavior mirrored the first term we would have been relatively safe but quality of life still drop. We are no longer safe, but he may get so drastic he loses his power

1

u/wetterfish 9h ago

My logic is based on other studies that have shown elections with the highest turnout % tend to favor democrats. 

So that would lend credibility to your “dems are lazier” narrative while also supporting my theory that Trump would have lost if those 90 million cast a vote. 

I think Trumps baseline is 25-30%, but if you look at the number that voted for him, that’s really about exactly where he is. 25-30% of the country supports him. 

The problem is, as you said, it’s a VERY devoted group of people, but I do think if we can just find ways to get 10% of that 90 million to simply cast a vote, it would dramatically shift the status quo. 

180

u/Thac0isWhac0 19h ago

During his first term I started seeing balkanization chatter floating around a lot more, curious to see if that's what comes of all this shit.

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u/Level21DungeonMaster 19h ago

I hope so. These red states have been ruining everything for a long time, it’s long past time to cut them off.

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u/distortedsymbol 19h ago

yeah but each and every red state all have very blue urban centers, and even california has deep red areas in the middle.

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u/xicer 19h ago

I think the red voters in California should voluntarily self-deport

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u/BraveFencerMusashi I voted 19h ago

They've been going to Texas and Idaho and then become shocked at the lack of public resources.

11

u/DOG_DICK__ 17h ago

Yeah they come to Texas and want to enjoy the natural beauty. Cool it's all privately owned so you'll have to buy yourself some.

40

u/woahitsjihyo 19h ago

Time to start deportations of maga and accepting left wing refugees.

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u/MagusUnion 18h ago

Please take me in, oh wondrous blue states!!

7

u/catspantaloons 18h ago

Please do. I’m ready to leave New Orleans.

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u/Level21DungeonMaster 19h ago

Sorry for them

12

u/bitcheslikejazz Arizona 18h ago

It’s like when your ex says what about the kids, and they aren’t even yours.

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u/pagerussell Washington 19h ago

If America broke up there would be a huge sorting out. Conservatives would move to red areas and liberals to blue areas. Not everyone, of course, but there would be massive migrations. Millions of people moving this way and that.

Which on the net of it would be very bad for red states. Most educated people are liberal. Red states would be witnessing a massive brain drain that would ensure a slow death spiral into a third world country.

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u/BatManatee 18h ago edited 17h ago

It would take less than 20 years for "Jesusland" to attack the "United Coasts of America".

When Red states stopped having Blue state money to prop them up, social programs would fail quickly. Texas and Florida aren't enough to carry the albatross of the South and Midwest economically. With no farm subsidies, social security collapsing, roads falling into disrepair, brain drain killing their hospitals, and gutting veterans' services, things would fall apart in no time.

Rather than introspection and improving themselves, they'd say the Blue states are responsible by coming up with some imagined slight just like they've been doing to Canada. And pretty soon we'd have Civil War 2.

Balkanization is starting to feel inevitable, but it won't be pretty either.

3

u/BikingThroughCanada 16h ago

> It would take less than 20 years for "Jesusland" to attack the "United Coasts of America".

Yeah, not in a world where nukes exist.

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u/BatManatee 16h ago

You vastly overestimate MAGA's capability to understand MAD

3

u/staunch_character 15h ago

The problem with Christians running things is too many of them WANT to see the world destroyed.

They don’t care about the planet or the environment. They’re just waiting for the Rapture.

2

u/Stonegrown12 14h ago

Yes because this administration is rational and our top military command isn't being bleed out with a alcoholic ex-Fox News DOD heading it.

3

u/ActOdd8937 15h ago

Perhaps you've noticed the very large range of mountains walling off the west coast, and how very few roads lead over them? West coast is pretty damned defensible and we do have a quite large stock of military things 'n stuff quartered here. The biggest ports, too.

3

u/Stonegrown12 14h ago

"Where these bombs are going, they don't need any roads.."

  • future movie quote from Trump (played by Kevin Sorbo) in a highly fictionalized propaganda film to rationalize the fact that half the country is radioactive.

5

u/SCViper 18h ago

Have you seen Western Tennessee and Northern Mississippi? They're already there.

0

u/dedicated-pedestrian Wisconsin 18h ago

Conversely, agriculture work correlates loosely with conservative thought, at least as things stand. So blue areas would have to figure out their food situation, and fast, because those areas are typically immensely more populous than the land that gets red votes.

Still, this type of trade is on the side of the other country - specifically exempting tariffs from Cali.

7

u/Dihedralman 18h ago

Food is low margin and California produces a ton. Red states lose ports and would quickly have production collapse. 

Real interesting bit is if the military stays loyal to the state. 

2

u/energetic_buttfucker 15h ago

You're assuming that farmers sell food into urban areas out of the goodness of their hearts... It's not charity, they need buyers or else they'll starve. Farmers don't decide who eats. They are sellers in a cash economy whose survival depends on continuous sale into urban markets. They either sell into blue areas or go bankrupt.

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u/[deleted] 18h ago

[deleted]

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u/staunch_character 14h ago

They’re not stupid. Farming is incredibly hard work & requires tons of problem solving skills.

The problem is they don’t feel represented by government. Most of our laws are designed for & by city people.

Which makes sense since that’s where most people live - but also means farmers in isolated communities end up vulnerable to divisive propaganda.

I have family on FB every night being fed pro gun bullshit - which they agree with because for a farmer, a gun is a tool. Gun use on a farm is a totally different world than someone carrying in a city.

Since Covid they’ve been getting a ton of racist stuff from South Africa about how black people are bad farmers & how tragic for the poor white families who had their land stolen.

Then the meat packing plants brings in hundreds of Somali refugees to break the Union & you get a bunch of angry farmers with only one party pulling their strings.

0

u/McFlyParadox Massachusetts 17h ago

Which on the net of it would be very bad for red states. Most educated people are liberal. Red states would be witnessing a massive brain drain that would ensure a slow death spiral into a third world country.

Rock long term would also be very bad for "blue areas", as it would set the continent up for decades, if not centuries of tensions, violence, and war.

We either all hang together, or alone.

2

u/IKetoth 16h ago

Would it though? Sure red states would be governed by the usual morons, but are they dumb enough to try and declare war on these imaginary blue coalition states that have 5-10x their economy and 3 times their population?

Being dumb and angry only carries you so far in war and I rather doubt the big defense contractors are gonna decide to stick with the clear losing side. Tensions? Yes, but there's tensions already. Open warfare? I don't know, but I doubt it.

0

u/McFlyParadox Massachusetts 16h ago

Would it though? Sure red states would be governed by the usual morons, but are they dumb enough to try and declare war on these imaginary blue coalition states that have 5-10x their economy and 3 times their population?

Afghanistan and Iraq have populations a little larger than 1/10th of America, and much smaller economies. And they gave America a run for their money.

Asymmetrical warfare is pretty much impossible to counteract with an organized force. Usually you only see it against occupying forces, but that's not a requirement - just a common catalyst to create it. You only beat asymmetrical warfare by convincing the local population to stop engaging in it, and that has always taken the cooperation of the local government to make happen.

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u/IKetoth 15h ago

Yeah but... they didn't chose to be invaded by the americans, that's my point, they'd be going into that war knowing they'd end up like iraq and afghanistan. You try asking a conservative what they think of those places?

1

u/McFlyParadox Massachusetts 15h ago

You try asking a conservative what they think of those places?

You try asking them what they think of California and New York?

If OAN spends enough air time going "someone should teach those blue states not to mess with Red states", eventually some of them will start to actually do something.

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u/EvaUnit_03 Georgia 19h ago

unfortunately for those blue areas, their attempts at civility and peace have failed. And those Red areas violence and oppression has largely failed except for on their own ilk.

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u/confirmedshill123 19h ago

Set up programs to get those people out. Easy said. Hard to do, but nothing in these next few years is going to be easy.

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u/relevantelephant00 18h ago

Time to go back to City States!

Leave the MAGA rural morons to their own devices.

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u/McFlyParadox Massachusetts 17h ago

That is literally one of the goals of the so-called "Butterfly Revolution" that some of the billionaires in the States are advocating for right now. Don't fall for that trap

1

u/relevantelephant00 17h ago

I wouldnt seriously consider it, that's a joke. But it sucks that decent normal folks in the blue cities of red states suffer because of their yokel dumbass neighbors in the rural areas.

1

u/WeirdJawn 16h ago

I get that rural areas tend to be more conservative, but people act like liberals can't or would never want to live in rural areas. 

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u/Fun_University_8380 8h ago

Who acts like that? If it weren't for the people there, living in a rural area would be great

1

u/_JackStraw_ South Carolina 18h ago

Here in Charleston, SC. Could we switch states and join California?

1

u/WeirdJawn 16h ago

Yeah, I hate the "cut off the red state" talk because it's not so cut and dry. 

Take Iowa for example. 42.7% of the vote in 2024 was for Kamala Harris, but it's still a "red state." 

Also, it neglects liberals who just happen to like rural or low population density areas. 

1

u/ActOdd8937 15h ago

Maybe Iowa needs to kick out its assholes or inform them in no uncertain terms that their attitudes and behaviors are not welcome there. If you don't do something when you see roaches in your house you're setting yourself up for living in a roach motel. It's the paradox of tolerance writ large.

1

u/El_Rey_de_Spices 15h ago

I spent a few years in the CA Central Valley. There's lots of right-wing anti-California sentiment, but they often get cold feet when the talk of leaving the state comes up. They look down on other conservatives for not leaving, but have a litany of reasons why they themselves aren't packing up.

1

u/11correcaminos 9h ago

A lot of "blue" states are like that. A few urban, population dense areas have vastly different ideas than the rest of the state and carry the vote

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u/Yipper-Skipper 18h ago

Like how some states create tax havens to steal businesses from other states.

Looking at you Texas...

2

u/MasterChildhood437 18h ago

Should have let them stay cut off 150 years ago. All that is really happening now is a consequence of attempting to reintegrate them. It's just the same irreconcilable differences on an infinite loop. Should have provided safety for refugees from the Confederacy and let them fuck up their half of the continent.

3

u/Level21DungeonMaster 18h ago

Sherman didn’t go far enough

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u/frygod Michigan 16h ago

Reconstruction was too gentle.

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u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 14h ago

Every time Texas gets pissy and people start threatening to secede I'm always just like, go for it! 100% support from me.

Good luck with that power grid that can't handle heat, or cold, or rain, or snow, or drought. And you should have enough fresh water to last almost a couple years.

Bon voyage!

1

u/Antiantiai 16h ago

That has been Russia's endgoal for their propaganda campaign for a long time. Inflamed fictional divide, split the nation, internal chaos, and eventually Balkanization and ideally secession. A divided US is a much easier to manage adversary.

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u/ern19 19h ago

Look man I’m all for what California is doing but maybe not if it results in me living in the republic of Floribama

11

u/kazzin8 19h ago

How would it be different from what's happening now?

15

u/EvaUnit_03 Georgia 19h ago

So, you are okay with them doing it ASSUMING they dont leave you out? Sounds like a very RED mentality, friend.

0

u/iordseyton 18h ago

I think he's just saying this works out way better for the blue states than the red ones.

8

u/TacticalFunky 19h ago

I'm all for California doing this, but as a fellow Southeasterner/Floridian it would suck to get stuck in the Confederacy of Dunces.

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u/slingshot91 Illinois 19h ago

Would it be all that different than your current existence?

3

u/TacticalFunky 18h ago

Fair point. :\

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u/NinjaLion Florida 19h ago

Floridian here, I'll gladly move to CA if the country balkanizes like this and they'll have me. Even if it's just my car, SO, and pets, it's going to be worth it to escape the utter devastation that would hit the state shortly afterwards. The oranges might keep away scurvy but we don't really grow much else here

5

u/WestPrize92340 19h ago

That would actually be pretty bad for Americans as a whole. Even those living in states like California.

5

u/Thac0isWhac0 18h ago

It would absolutely be awful for Americans, and globally I would think.

5

u/toxic_badgers Colorado 18h ago

Its very much a russian psy op, and its been pretty successful.

40

u/SheibeForBrains Michigan 19h ago

This was my thought as well. It makes me wonder how far out we are from withholding federal all taxes and in general, giving the orange menace the nose thumb.

8

u/EvaUnit_03 Georgia 19h ago

i mean, it is his plan to stop income tax. And he plans on doing away with all the social programs that you get taxed. So what taxes will be paid into the federal government at that point other than things like tariffs?

3

u/SheibeForBrains Michigan 19h ago

I’d love to see how much money the govt brings in on tariffs after Americans end their consumerism habits VS income tax. That’d be a neat side by side.

0

u/TiredEsq 17h ago

That makes no sense logistically. You don’t pay federal taxes to California who then pay it to the federal government. This would involve the California government directing its citizens not to file taxes. I do not envision tons of people agreeing and, even if they do, they risk agents with guns showing up at their doors.

0

u/SheibeForBrains Michigan 16h ago

They would in a secession. And that’s the discussion here.

11

u/GotenRocko Rhode Island 19h ago

Really shows no one read the actual article. CA is not saying they will not allow the collection of import tariffs, they are trying to get other countries that are imposing tariffs on USA exports to exclude CA products like almonds from their tariffs. Very different thing.

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u/an_actual_coyote 19h ago

Proud of my Californian brothers!

3

u/TinFoilBeanieTech 19h ago

We are all Sovereign Citizens on this blessed day.

3

u/ventricles 18h ago

Californians are tired of completing the group project and failing anyway because the losers didn’t do their part.

1

u/thanksbastards 19h ago

who ever would have thought Make California Mexico Again would be like, a positive thing?

2

u/ActOdd8937 15h ago

Mexico has awesome food and single payer healthcare. Their citizens subsidize the fuck out of our economy by being guest workers. At this point I'd be fine with being Mexico, all things considered. And don't bring up cartels or drugs please, we have plenty of equivalent bullshit that's all local grown.

1

u/CAWildKitty 19h ago

It’s economic secession.

1

u/sparklinglies 19h ago

Fck it, New California Republic, lets go

1

u/PretendThisIsMyName South Carolina 19h ago

Well so am I but don’t lump all of us down here in! I’d love to be in the NCR but sadly it’s not viable. It might be futile but I’m still fighting here! I will proudly say fuck this state and most people in it.

1

u/cavalier2015 I voted 18h ago

The USSR gets its revenge from beyond the grave through Putin

1

u/atreeismissing 18h ago

No it's not, they'd just be using a loophole to purchase goods.

1

u/IdkAbtAllThat America 18h ago

And circumventing federal taxes.

1

u/keepthepace Europe 15h ago

Sad thing is, that's one of the end goal of Trump's patrons.

1

u/marshalist 19h ago

It really is and if pushed is a Rubicon moment. Interesting times ahead.

1

u/hereditydrift 19h ago

I live in New York. Trump took away $300 million earmarked for healthcare and substance abuse treatment. I'm all for the blue states aligning and having a defacto secession.

California, New York, and other more liberal states subsidize many of the poorer conservative states through the allocation of federal tax dollars. For states that subsidize other states to now have more federal funding that supports social services to be pulled from their coffers is abhorrent.

1

u/boundless88 Illinois 18h ago

100%

"I'll make my own blue state America, with blackjack healthcare and hookers reproductive rights!"

-11

u/SpiritualScumlord 19h ago

Sorry but this is ignorant bs. Don't get me wrong I'm against this administration, but the US Civil War is the bloodiest war in US history and the only reason the US ever came back from it was because Lincoln was a leader of leaders. Literally, brothers killed brothers. To promote such a thing is one of the most ignorant and heartless things you can do. Genuinely, please shut up.

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u/sagerobot I voted 19h ago

Tell that to the conservatives who are dreaming of the day they get to turn their guns on liberals.

2

u/calamity_unbound 19h ago

I'm in agreement with both of you here. A 2nd civil war would be unimaginably devastating for the country for innumerable reasons. To your point, however, if the side that seemingly chomps at the bit to bring violence to the equation gets their way, I believe they will be thoroughly surprised by the resistance they meet. Just because liberals don't deck out their trucks in Glock stickers doesn't mean they don't own and use firearms.

My hope, however, is that if we reach that point, Conservatives/MAGA/Neo-Confedrates, whatever you want to call them, will choke and back down as they so often do when their bluff is called. I'm not optimistic on that front, but it is much easier to sit behind a screen and spout threats and hate than it is to literally put your life on the line in defense of that rhetoric.

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u/SpiritualScumlord 19h ago

The mentally sound response is not to promote a civil war to kill them first.

2

u/Warin_of_Nylan 18h ago

The mentally sound response is to [checks notes] get killed in our sleep and complain about it afterward

8

u/Stratafyre Washington 19h ago

The US never came back from it and that's why we are where we are.

0

u/SpiritualScumlord 19h ago

You must be the emotional and hyperbolic type because last I checked all the historians agree America has been enduring a golden age for quite a while.

3

u/stickyfan1230 19h ago

Yeah I am pretty sure my maga ex military brother whom I used to have a good relationship with but am now no contact would kill me as easily as any other “woke” person who gets in his way. I would hate to see this once great country come to that. Let’s concentrate on reining in this imbecile first. I will never forgive him for what he has done to our country.

1

u/SpiritualScumlord 19h ago

I just hope that the people vote out all of these spineless fascist pandering politicians too afraid to stand up to Trump. I'm shocked that the Supreme Court is doing it at all, even if it is just sometimes and when they do it's just barely. Polarization has always been bad but the tidal wave of fake news and extremeism baiting has given it a voice on the internet unlike ever before.

3

u/Warin_of_Nylan 19h ago

How many of those hate-driven assholes would love to kill me and people like me in the streets with the slightest chance? At some point, we have to stand up for ourselves.

3

u/thejimbo56 Minnesota 19h ago

Do you have a solution to offer that isn’t just vote harder?

2

u/SpiritualScumlord 19h ago

Suggesting Americans kill other Americans isn't a solution?