r/politics • u/sweatycat New York • 1d ago

California to Negotiate Trade With Other Countries to Bypass Trump Tariffs

https://www.newsweek.com/california-newsom-trade-trump-tariffs-2055414
92.0k Upvotes

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26.4k

u/Archer1407 1d ago

Trump is going to launch a trade war against California in the next few days.

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u/pm_me_ur_ParusMajors North Carolina 1d ago

Considering how much agriculture and manufacturing actually come out of California, this would have a substantial impact on the rest of the US. The California gdp is as much as in the top 5 gdp's in the world.

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u/Cisco-NintendoSwitch 1d ago

Right, California could secede and collapse all the red states.

Either way we’re heading to something.

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u/TehMephs 1d ago

Take us with you!

Signed, Colorado

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u/Sudden-Investment 1d ago

In the non realistic fever dream of States seceding I always felt Colorado would get shafted since it struck in the middle of the US.

  • California, Oregon, Washington are fine since they have the Pacific Ocean.
  • Minnesota, Michigan, maybe Wisconsin all share a border with Canada to the North.
  • New York and many of the North East States either border Canada or the Atlantic Ocean.
  • Colorado borders all Deep Red States and New Mexico.

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u/AllRushMixTapes 1d ago

Colorado would be invaded because of the watershed. No way does the U.S. let us leave without a fight.

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u/headbangershappyhour 1d ago

In that case, CA would launch a counterattack into Southern NV/Northern AZ to capture the entire Hoover and Glen Canyon Dam infrastructure and all of the associated water distribution networks. That water is too important for Los Angeles and to bribe the central valley farmers to not revolt.

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u/TheBigWil 1d ago

Basically New Vegas, but without the cool stuff

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u/KasseanaTheGreat Iowa 1d ago

Maybe if Musk decides to double down on insisting it was actually a "Roman" salute it might literally just be New Vegas

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u/Spongebobgolf 1d ago

I was going to say, that sounds like some New Vegas shit right there

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u/Dorgamund 1d ago

It would have to go either way. If CO makes threats to the states downstream of the river, it could very likely drag those other states along.

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u/b34tn1k 1d ago

Three of those red states heavily rely on the Colorado River, maybe we turn off the faucet. I know it's not realistic but still

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u/ragnarokxg 1d ago

Colorado and New Mexico cutting off the water to the Colorado and Rio Grande rivers would hurt Arizona and Texas so bad.

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u/starmartyr Colorado 1d ago

Nevada as well. Las Vegas would be uninhabitable within weeks.

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u/Scott5114 Nevada 1d ago

Nevada depends so heavily on California agriculture that if California is out Nevada kind of has no choice but to go along with it.

Nevada also isn't (that kind of) stupid so I would imagine that you'd get a CO-NV water rights compact in place pretty quickly. NV really doesn't use a whole lot of Colorado River water since most of what we do use can be recycled fairly effectively. Las Vegas's net water usage is tiny for a city of our size.

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u/crankyrhino Texas 1d ago

Have you seen the Rio Grande lately? There's not much water there these days.

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u/bassman1805 1d ago

Yeah, so imagine how much worse it'd be if CO stopped giving a shit about the people downriver.

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u/sundvlsean 1d ago

AZ is a blue state once we deport all the retirees back to the Midwest.

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u/Watchakow 1d ago

Nah the Midwest doesn't want them, send them to Florida.

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u/ragnarokxg 1d ago

New Mexico and Colorado could help California annex Arizona.

Remember New Mexico has the bombs.

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u/yuriaoflondor 1d ago edited 1d ago

Worth pointing out that Wisconsin voted for Trump in 2024. Though it’s long been a swing state. And as a cheesehead myself… please for the love of god get me off Trump’s Wild Ride.

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u/Freshness518 1d ago

I feel like it wouldn't take much to convince Nevada to go as well. I bet Vegas would just follow the money. And if all the money just left, they would follow. A bunch of dirt poor desert ranchers in the north aren't going to hold much sway against the power and influence of billions of entertainment dollars once the direction of Vegas is different than theirs.

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u/sotfggyrdg 1d ago

I wish. I'm a bit skeptical though because there's a ton of California haters here in vegas, even among liberals. Lots of idiots like to blame all of Nevada's problems on California as well as having little brother syndrome to LA.

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u/TheWizardOfDeez 1d ago

Sounds like a great way to quickly educate them on how much better their lives are WITH California.

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u/sotfggyrdg 1d ago

Nevada and education go together like peanut butter and mayo

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u/Drak_is_Right 1d ago

Its hard to undersell just how big of a deal Great Lakes shipping (combined with the Mississippi-Ohio-Missouri) has been for the US. You have a 600 ft. vessels nearly a thousand miles from the sea.

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u/ankhes 1d ago

I think a lot of people don’t truly understand just how massive the Great Lakes are (especially Superior and Michigan) until they see them in person. As someone who was born and raised near the Pacific and now lives less than an hour from Lake Michigan, the latter behaves shockingly similar to the former.

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u/B_Type13X2 21h ago

As the bard sang, "Does anyone know where the love of god goes when the waves turn the minutes into hours?"

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u/B_Type13X2 21h ago

1000ft + actually and have since the 60's

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u/randypupjake California 1d ago

Either they would have to convince Arizona or convince Wyoming or Montana... (and they don't have to take all of it, just enough to be contiguous and form a border with Canada)

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u/thisTexanguy 1d ago

Could Wyoming even resist? There's barely anyone in the state.

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u/sundvlsean 1d ago

AZ is easy. Az would be a blue state if it wasn’t for all the snowbirds.

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u/-Darkslayer 1d ago

I find that hard to believe. We lost AZ by over 5 points in 2024, it wasn’t that close

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u/sundvlsean 1d ago

Dem Gov and both senators picked by AZ voters. Snowbirds and retiree’s and possibly some vote manipulation to get the state to go Trump

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u/Scarecrow_Folk 1d ago

MN, MI and WI have international ports and sea access as well. 

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u/digidi90 1d ago

It's not that bad; you can make a bridge to Old Mexico thru New Mexico with maybe an exit or two to Breaking Bad country.

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u/ROOFisonFIRE_usa 13h ago

It might a battle line, but everything between Colorado and California would fall in line pretty quick. SD, ND,NE, NM, WY, MT, NV, AZ not coming to invade. Those people are fairly reasonable to deal with and have an understanding amongst themselves.

KS, OK, TX... well thats another story...

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

Same. Here in Massachusetts.

The blue states should secede. On our own or in some kind of partnership with Canada (United States of Canadia?). The red states are an anchor around our neck. We need to cut them loose.

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u/whoibehmmm 1d ago

Couldn't agree more. They've been holding us back for decades.

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u/NecroCannon 1d ago

Even before all of this I decided to move from Mississippi because there’s genuinely no future here, the state refuses to progress to grow and will take two steps back just to make sure it stays that way.

Meanwhile I look at Illinois, where I’m going to, and the Gov is on Trump’s ass and also doing trade negotiations behind Trump’s back around tariffs

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u/whoibehmmm 1d ago

Good on you for getting out! My personal feelings about Newsom and Pritzker aside, all blue state govs should be following their lead.

And I know lots of leftists will argue "we should be moving TO red states to flip them" but fuck that. Their majority vote that way because they want to stay that way. After this circus of an election I am done trying to make them see the light. If you want to live in a place that actively tries to move forward then you're just going to have to pick up and move to those places.

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u/NecroCannon 1d ago

I’m not out yet but I’m 2-3 months from it!

But it’s exactly how I feel now, and the thing about my town is, it has a whole famous athlete tied to it but with that spot light still barely does anything with it. I can’t even stand by the “remember where you came from and support your home town” stance, there was so much racial bullshit it took me graduating and learning more about the world to see that my area has hardly even fucking moved past segregation. It’s baked into minds here like it was just 20 years ago or some shit.

What kind of educated person wants to settle down where they feel like they’re surrounded by idiots stuck in the past? These states deserve to fall at this point

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u/whoibehmmm 1d ago

I am very happy for you and those 2-3 months will pass in a flash. I grew up in the South. Fuck that, lol. I want to live in places where people dream of moving forward. Have a great life in your new city!

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u/TehMephs 1d ago

+2 from this household

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 1d ago

We can then just invade, liberate the red states, and make them territories without actual voting power. So we'll have a US again but with an updated constitution and better voters.

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u/whoibehmmm 1d ago

Liberate them? They vote for the policies that keep them in the stone age, it's what they want. They should just form their own dream coalition where they have God but no education, healthcare and technology and their blue voters can come to our side.

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u/donkeyrocket 1d ago

As someone who lives in a strong blue spot within a deep red state, I depressingly get the sentiment but keep in mind that there are people everywhere that voted for this while others are caught within states with rural red rule.

The Democrat stronghold of Massachusetts that had the strongest Harris vote still saw 36% voting for Trump.

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u/whoibehmmm 1d ago

Oh, I know, and I feel you. Every single state no matter how "red" or "blue" can't be distilled down to just that. In a world where blue states could actually form their own government, there would likely be a lot of blue voters trapped in red states because moving isn't that easy in reality. And vice versa.

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 1d ago edited 20h ago

Their kids don't deserve that though. Most of their daughters probably won't want to get raped by an older man when they're 14 and married off. This way of life they're so desperately trying to protect is just... deplorable. It cannot be practiced without hurting innocents because being allowed to hurt innocents to feel powerful is the point.

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u/King-Snorky Georgia 1d ago

EVERY STATE IS A PURPLE STATE. The United States as a country is as fucked as it is right now due in large part to our archaic FPTP Electoral College system, which leaves a massive portion of people living in a state that ultimately gives away all its electoral votes to the other candidate.

  • Kamala actually got more votes from people in states she lost than from states she won in 2024. ~52% (~38.9 million) of her ~75 million votes came from so called "red states/districts", making up about 38% of those states' total votes.
  • A third (~26.4 million) of Trump's 77.3 votes came from so-called "blue states/districts", also comprising about 40% of those states total votes.

So, let's take the ridiculous scenario where the States/districts that went to Trump in 2024 all seceded, taking all their current residents and forming a new Confederate States of America v2.0. The election results tell us that around 40% of people in each country, 65 million people in total, would want to move to the other country.

Source: Did the math myself. Nebraska of course would find itself in an interesting East/West Berlin situation in the area surrounding Omaha.

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 20h ago

That's the real issue with any proposed geographic division.

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u/VermillionEclipse 1d ago

Will you take refugees from red states?

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u/whoibehmmm 22h ago

Absolutely. Come on over!

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u/The_Kielbasa_Kid 22h ago

Ever since they lost the War of Northern Agression

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u/MissRepresent 1d ago

They keep us poor in red states, so we can't afford to move..wish I could leave

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u/randypupjake California 1d ago

Good news!

You aren't the only ones who can't leave. There are other Americans who can't get passports because of Trump

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u/tamman2000 Maine 1d ago

Secession would be really difficult, with how intertwined the states are, and federal facilities being spread out all over, etc...

I would love to see a coalition of blue states form. The coalition could create agencies independent of the federal government to backfill all the functions that Trump is taking away.

But if states do start to leave. I really hope my blue tinted, but not solid blue state joins

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 23h ago

Dude check out r/RepublicofNE they are a registered non-profit in your area.

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

Well Trump's closing a lot of the federal facilities, so that solves that problem.

I agree that we should chose what to fund ourselves. I want to properly fund our national parks, libraries, museums, and social safety net, but I don't want to pay federal taxes and then pay a second time through the state. That's taxation without representation. We need to withhold our federal taxes and I don't think Trump will take that well - his whole administration is just a tax grab.

Secession seems like the only way to go.

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u/tamman2000 Maine 1d ago

I think the coalition I mentioned is a first step down that road. It's hard to withhold your federal taxes when the federal government is in the banks and the taxes are predominantly taken by withholdings from paychecks. If the blue states create a parallel, but regulated with the consumer in mind, banking system, then it's harder for the feds to get our money against our will

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u/amisslife Canada 1d ago

I've mentioned this before, but this might be where you can do what's called an "Interstate Compact."

Basically, states band together to get stuff done. I've long thought it might be beneficial to do on a regional scale (e.g. New England) or for an issue like healthcare, but I think you're onto something here.

They can bully any one of you - they might even be able to bully most states simultaneously. But they cannot bully all of you at the same time if you band together.

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u/espressocycle 1d ago

I think New England and California could both secede while maintaining state lines. The rest of the country is too divided.

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u/AiBestGirl95 1d ago

Oregon and Washington could form Cascadia

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u/espressocycle 1d ago

The eastern parts of both states would object. A lot of them already want to join Idaho.

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u/Duna_The_Lionboy 1d ago

They need to lift themselves up by their own bootstraps for once.

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u/1ndiana_Pwns 1d ago

Blue states seceding? The United States undergoing balkanization?

I'm not against this, shockingly

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u/Inside-Palpitation25 1d ago

I just said yesterday, that If a democrat ever wins again, I want them to say that the Blue states are Tired of giving the red states money, that the red states will only get back in Fed money, what they PAY!

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

Right?? We have proportional representation, why not proportional taxation and allotments?

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u/MasterChildhood437 1d ago

Unfortunately the vast amount of space between California and the eastern blue states makes it challenging to become a singular entity. Likely New England either becomes its own thing or partners with New York and its sphere of influence.

I see this as roughly being the way things go in the next decade, since the differences between ideologies are irreconciliable. Five or six different nations resulting in the end, with California, New York, Texas, and Florida being the major territories.

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

Canada connects us like a horseshoe.

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u/i_love_pencils 1d ago

United States of Canadia?

How aboot no?

If you want in, you’re becoming provinces…

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u/Zjarrr 1d ago edited 1d ago

This is why I think an independent nation (or a few nations) that closely ally themselves to Canada is the way to go. As a Minnesotan I have always felt closer to Canadians then I have with most of my countrymen, but I definitely understand that the feeling isn't mutual after threatening to annex you and then placing tariffs on you for no reason

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u/i_love_pencils 1d ago

Well put…

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u/amisslife Canada 1d ago

Pretty much. This might end up being what we have to consider, if the US as a whole does not change course soon.

Honestly, if one or two states wanted to become provinces, we could probably do that. But any more than that? Just become your own country; we can have a close alliance, maybe even do an EU-style thing.

I enjoyed my time in Minnesota when I visited, and although it'd be kind of nice on one hand to have you join, it might be even better to just make your own country and we can be best friends/lovers in the night.

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u/Im_Not_Important 1d ago

The provence of New England does have a ring to it

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u/DOG_DICK__ 1d ago

I guess France will provide a Provence if we're committed to that spelling.

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u/cyanescens_burn 1d ago

Consider giving northern NH, VT, and ME to Quebec. Culturally they have some French roots right?

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u/NotASalamanderBoi I voted 1d ago

Fine by me.

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u/KarmicDevelopment 1d ago

I'd happily be the province of IL in CA at this point.

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u/ThePhoenixus 1d ago

It's nice in theory but I have a bridge to sell you if you think Trump MAGA would let go peacefully.

Not to mention that theres no such thing as a pure red or blue state. Even the most blue states have about 30-40% of people who voted Republican, and the most red states have 30-40% people who vote Democrat.

In terms of numbers, there's more Republicans in states like New York and California than there are the total population of states like Alabama and Oklahoma. And vice versa theres more democrats in Florida and Texas than there are the total people in states like Maine and Massachusetts.

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

It might be an India / Pakistan type of situation, which would be unpleasant, but that's better than the alternative. If it does come to civil war, we already know how that ends and the last time we didn't have the west coast. It would be quick work.

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u/JeanLucPicardAND 1d ago

It's nice in theory but I have a bridge to sell you if you think Trump MAGA would let go peacefully.

Don't act like that's purely a MAGA thing. The secession question was resolved back in 1865. No one gets to leave.

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u/TheAnalogKid18 1d ago

Gotta include VA too.

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

It would be kind of awkward if we took DC.

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u/theapeboy 1d ago

The East Coast and West Coast secede in partnership. PINCER MOVE.

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u/nucking_futs_001 1d ago

Let's all be Canada!

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u/notsofunonabun 1d ago

Thank you for using “loose” correctly.

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u/Etrigone California 1d ago

I do wonder, if we did secede, would he send the military in ala Russian & Ukraine? I can totally see that.

I mean I could see him in one breath - cuz supposedly America hates California and all we are/stand for - even kicking us out & saying they're better off without us. But then, next breathe, the above.

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u/early_birdy 1d ago

As a Canadian, I would agree to such a arrangement. It would be the best of both world for both of us IMHO.

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u/PaulTheMerc 1d ago

Learn the basics. If you're joining Canada, we use the term Provinces(or Territories)

Canada & the United Territories has a nice ring to it.

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u/MasterChildhood437 1d ago

Canada & the United Territories

Sounds like a 90s fantasy cartoon.

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

"territories" sounds like we're homesteaders or something. How about the United Federation of Canada and the American States?

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u/darkstar3333 1d ago

As a Canadian, wed rather you retain your independence and identity. Your past is important.

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

A lot of our past sucks. I'd like to focus on the future.

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u/jinreeko 1d ago

Can I come too? I live in Pennsylvania but definitely want the middle half of our state (or really anything an hour outside Pittsburgh/Philly and to a lesser degree Lancaster) firebombed

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u/bobdob123usa 1d ago

The Canadian Provinces of America

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

I don't care if we call it Fredonia, as long as we get away from Trump.

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u/iamnotcreative 1d ago

What sucks is being in a dark red state with blue parts. The Lake Erie coast of Ohio is varying degrees of blue; I do not want to be left in Gilead after everyone leaves

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

That's true. Some people might have to be given some $$$ to resettle.

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u/fragilemuse 1d ago

Canada is Canada, we will never be the "United States" of anything.

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u/thefudd 1d ago

Fuck yeah

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u/KarmicDevelopment 1d ago

lightly kicks dirt on the ground while looking down

Can IL join this new club?

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u/SharpCookie232 1d ago

We couldn't leave without Chicago! I think the whole "blue wall" should leave. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_wall_(United_States))

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u/Appropriate_Golf2558 1d ago

inb4 all the MAGAts that said “if you don’t like it, you can get out” start whining about how blue states leaving hurts them

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u/Fif112 Canada 23h ago

As a Canadian, you really don’t need us.

As much as I’d love to have you as a part of our country, you really don’t need us for anything you’d be doing alone.

Happy for the trade, and to work with you as whatever you exit the states and if you wanted to combine I don’t think anyone would be that upset about it (on our side)

But again, you guys would be more than fine on your own and don’t need to be a part of our country.

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u/PenImpossible874 New York 23h ago

Why don't you just join the r/RepublicofNE they're an organized non-profit in your area.

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u/b34tn1k 1d ago

Every time those "fixed it" maps come out where it draws US states as part of Canada they always leave out CO and NM but include a couple of trump voting states. Due to that I've felt we should strike out on our own. We could control the flow of the Colorado River as leverage.

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 1d ago

Eh, invade Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho and occupy them.

Those people will go full Talliban of course, but they have been trying to do that for decades anyway so we would just be fulfilling their dreams. Until they realize that ammo and gas are actually hard to find when you're an occupied territory. But let's not let their dreams be dreams.

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u/whoibehmmm 1d ago

As a fellow Colorado resident, all I can think about is how we can find a way to link up to these other blue states. Also, I wish that our state government had the balls that CA does. If anything, I will pack my ass up and move back to the West Coast.

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u/butwhyisitso 1d ago

New rule, you must have elevation gain of xyz to join the Reunited Democratic Assembly. (must be this tall to play lol)

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u/TehMephs 1d ago

Easier to defend a mountain range? 🤷‍♂️

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u/fluffHead_0919 1d ago

Haha I tried to crosspost to r/Colorado but it’s not allowed :(

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u/WatInTheForest 1d ago

Don't forget Washington. We have the apples and coffee. 

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u/6435683453 1d ago

As a Canadian, I honestly think the best case scenario here is for the three west coast states to secede and form their own nation, and for New England to do the same.

If your Constitution no longer matters, then there's nothing to stop either region from telling the red states to piss off.

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u/TehMephs 1d ago

I’m less worried about it the anemic red states surrounding us and more about the fact we’d be cut off from support by geography if he sicced the US military our way

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u/Daghain 1d ago

Another Coloradoan here! Take us with you!

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u/climb-it-ographer 1d ago

Arizona clinging on for dear life.

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u/ragnarokxg 1d ago

New Mexico wants in as well.

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u/mcaster10 1d ago

We have lots of fresh water in Michigan. Take us too!

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u/Senior-Albatross New Mexico 1d ago

Can NM come along? It would give CA basically the entire nuclear weapons complex. The only thing they wouldn't have is Oak Ridge.

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u/echosrevenge 1d ago

Oooh, finally a non-American country where I'll qualify for Citizenship By Descent!

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u/entredeuxeaux 1d ago

Be careful, all. For some reason that is unknown to many, this is what they want. But why

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u/Allaplgy 1d ago

Because they want the US to break up into technofascist fiefdoms with an army of christofascists doing their bidding outside the city-states, and an absolute monarch at the helm.

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u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 1d ago

It's literally just Atlas Shrugged where CEOs are monarchs

Fun fact, the only reason Ayn Rand didn't die homeless in the street was Social Security, which she had spent decades demonizing and trying to destroy. But she of course had no hesitation about taking it herself.

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u/Kup123 1d ago

Because everyone left leaning who is capable of it will move there. They would basically get what they consider the trash to take it's self out for free.

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u/SerRikari 1d ago

Explain

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u/ForgettableUsername America 1d ago

The US breaking up into warring factions is the biggest win Russia could have hoped for.

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u/hookyboysb 1d ago

It's a bigger win for China. They basically control the world economy once Trump is done messing with it. Russia won't truly be powerful until the EU collapses, which Trump is accidentally strengthening.

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u/mitkase 1d ago

And really, the odds of Russia being able to turn any of this into a big win is not very likely, at least to my eyes. Russia is overplaying its hand, Trump is eating paste, and China is sipping oolong in the background waiting for the Lil Tyrants to tire themselves out.

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u/VonSchplintah 1d ago

It always gets worse for the Russian people.

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u/oldmaninparadise 1d ago

Mostly if you stand close to the hospitals upper floor windows. For some reason, a hugely high chance of somehow falling out.

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u/RedditTrespasser 1d ago

Russian culture takes a sort of perverse pride in misery, always has. You aren’t a real man unless your life is ugly, brutish, short and drenched in vodka.

I guess it makes sense when you consider the climate.

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u/RedditTrespasser 1d ago edited 1d ago

Say what you want about China, but that is one stable fucking country. The current PRoC has been getting nothing but stronger since the end of WW2, and China as a culture has existed in some form since before the time of Rome.

Despite what Sinophobics would want you to believe, China will be around long after the US has crumbled to dust, and may well outlive any European states.

Eastern philosophy values social harmony, collectivism and reverence towards the traditions and values of past generations. Western philosophy prizes individualism, competition, and dominating your environment. Guess which one is more prone to sparking conflict and hoarding of resources?

I’ll give you a hint- China actually punishes- severely- billionaires when they commit crimes.

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u/Tiruin 1d ago

Plenty of issues especially with housing and birth rates, Great Firewall goes both ways, you only think it's this stable monolith because you never hear otherwise.

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u/RedditTrespasser 1d ago

China isn’t North Korea, lol. Chinese people travel literally everywhere, for everything from tourism to business. I agree that China has its problems, especially when it comes to issues of censorship, but I think you may be guilty of some degree of propaganda-influenced bias if you argue that it’s dystopian.

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u/SerRikari 1d ago

Well… whatever your username was again… that’s a fair point.

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u/ArkitekZero 1d ago

Yeah any time I see this suggested I don't see anyone else asking what happens to the nukes and supercarriers. You aren't just gonna get a proportional amount of them handed over

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u/espressocycle 1d ago

California has more military installations assigned nuclear-warfare responsibilities than any other state and ranks fourth in the number of nuclear warheads stockpiled.

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u/ArkitekZero 1d ago

Well that's good because I mistakenly thought the missiles were all in flyover states.

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u/espressocycle 1d ago

I assumed so as well. Also until recently I had completely forgotten that France maintains a sizable nuclear arsenal.

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u/ForgettableUsername America 1d ago

Everyone always assumes that if California seceded, everything inside California’s borders would be part of the new republic and it’d all work together nicely, but reality isn’t that tidy. California is not politically homogeneous, the rural areas are pretty solid red. They may not be up for secession if the justification is liberal. And we can’t just say to hell with them, because if just the California cities secede then we don’t have the agricultural resources we need to be independent.

It might sound nice as a pipe dream, but the reality would be a shit show.

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u/ArkitekZero 1d ago

Yeah Quebec has similar issues here. If they did decide to secede, the actual territory they'd be 'owed' is tiny.

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u/DOG_DICK__ 1d ago

and I want a nice life for myself and my family. Whatever banner that may be under.

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u/VoiceOfRealson 1d ago

"They" in this case are Russia and their cronies.

Just like they tricked Britain into Brexit, they want to divide USA into separate states and ideally get them to fight each other.

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u/n0fingerprints 1d ago

If he makes it so that some states secede, hell use that as a way to nullify the constitution and become a dictator

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u/Daxx22 Canada 1d ago

As relatively careful Civil War was to not be to politically specific, having California be one of the succeeding states is pretty realistic/required logistically.

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u/BirdOfHermess Europe 1d ago

I remember when people were slamming that specific movie for being "completely unrealistic" and "a president would never get a 3rd term IRL". Good times

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u/MVRKHNTR 1d ago

If I remember right, a lot of the worldbuilding from that was almost directly lifted from parts of Robert Evans' After the Revolution and as someone from a farming town who's studied and reported on actual civil wars, he had a pretty solid explanation for why California would ally with Texas.  

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u/AbrohamDrincoln 1d ago

Do you have any high level overview for why that is?

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u/F3z345W6AY4FGowrGcHt 1d ago

As a Canadian, I officially invite California to join us. 🇨🇦

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u/Fredrall 1d ago

You want to open the constitution? The last time it went so well...

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u/raphtze 1d ago

visited BC last year and LOVE IT. want to visit again this year :) we are making plans to visit victoria :P

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u/FaceDeer 1d ago

Absolutely not. California's population is roughly equal to Canada's and is culturally quite dissimilar to us, it would destroy Canada.

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u/FlallenGaming 1d ago

Yeah, can't understand why Canadians would want California. We're not the same. Let California have it's own country if it wants. 

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u/DivineRage002 1d ago

Can you elaborate? I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just trying to understand why it would be a problem

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u/FaceDeer 1d ago

Canada has a population of 40 million, California's population is 39 million. Canada's GDP is $2 trillion, California's is $4 trillion. It's not really a question of "California joining Canada", it's just as much a question of "Canada joining California."

Donald Trump got 40% of the popular vote in California in 2024. It's got substantial dark-red areas. Even in the blue areas there are plenty of Trump supporters. We don't want that injected into Canada's politics. Even your Democrats are on the right end of Canada's Overton window.

What would Californians think about giving up their second amendment right to bear arms? How do we stop the flood of illegal guns from California into Canada? Have Californians been polled on what they think about having King Charles as their head of state? Bilingual French/English for product labelling and government services? Switching over all signage to metric? Elections where you don't get to vote for prime minister, or judges, or any of the innumerable other little things that end up on American ballots for whatever reason? No more American presidents on their money? No more pledge of allegiance every morning at the beginning of school, no more Stars and Stripes. Border checkpoints whenever they want to drive to another state in their former country (which they'd have to do to get to the rest of Canada, too). A whole new regulatory regime for their agriculture and industries and whatnot.

There are lots of things about being Canadian that the people advocating for California joining Canada probably haven't thought about. They'll have to yield on all of those. I don't think they will.

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u/DivineRage002 1d ago

Solid answer! Thanks!

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u/Crimson_Caelum 8h ago edited 6h ago

The biggest issue culturally would be you’d basically add another Quebec. 28% of Californians speak Spanish as their first language, 22% of Canadians have French as their first language. 10 million primary Spanish speakers vs 7.1 million primary French speakers in Canada. If this union happened Canada would no longer be anglophone vs francophone. French would be knocked down to #3

This is made worse by the fact that in Canada there is already 1.3 million primary Spanish speakers but in California there’s apparently only 127k primary French speakers. So you can bump the numbers up to 11.2. This new country would be 11% Spanish speaking and 8% French speaking.

That being said we actually do have boarder checkpoints between states but it’s to check for fruit lol

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u/Mylaptopisburningme 1d ago

I have been saying I look forward to being a Canafornian.

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u/biciklanto American Expat 1d ago

For province names, Washington and Oregon would become Cascadia, and California can either remain California or become Pacifica.

I'm in

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u/Strict_Somewhere_148 1d ago

Come over to the dark side we have butter cookies in our sewing tins.

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u/angrydeuce 1d ago

Who would have thought Civil War was a documentary

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u/ivegotaqueso 1d ago

I want my state (CA) to withhold federal tax dollars from the federal government til we get what we want.

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u/gmen6981 I voted 1d ago

As good as that sounds, there is no mechanism to do it. Employers collect Federal taxes and send them to the Fed. They don't go through the state. Every employer in the state ( many foreign based or not based in Cali) would have to agree to break Federal law and withhold them.

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u/ivegotaqueso 1d ago

It’s still my pipe dream!

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u/Mrciv6 1d ago

Can the rest of the west coast join you and embargo the US cutting them off from easy access to the pacific? Also seize all naval assets based on the west coast thus having nukes and a large navy.

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u/Dorkamundo 1d ago

Instead of the US making Canada it's 51st state, Canada will probably end up with about 15 new provinces.

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u/Docxm 1d ago

We're really closing in point-for-point on the plot of A24's Civil War lol

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u/Smishysmash 1d ago

California: you can’t head out the door without taking your hat.

Signed: Oregon.

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u/TheGreatWar 1d ago

West Coast states unite! We could become Pacifica or something. 

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u/maha420 1d ago

please god let this happen

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u/abc_mikey 1d ago

Time for the combined Western Forces of Texas and California.

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u/BasicLayer 1d ago

Sadly, this exactly has been the goal of the USSR and now Russia for decades and decades, and us Americans are asking for it now willingly. Russia has masterfully finished and won the Cold War for the Soviet Union all these years later. Fucking masterful. Shame.

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u/purplecatchap Foreign 1d ago edited 21h ago

I love how the nuttier states are the ones who get most federal funding. Reminds me of Hungary within the EU. By far the most pro Russia, with an authoritarian leader but also one of the biggest beneficiaries of EU funding. While both attacking the US federal gov / EU at any opportunity.

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u/MadManMax55 1d ago

It would also collapse California.

I know everyone likes to point out their high GDP, but a huge amount of that comes from handling Pacific shipping for the rest of the US. Without a very generous trade agreement between California and the new US they'd lose a massive part of their economy. And that's just trade goods passing through California. Not being able to freely sell their domestically produced goods and services to the rest of the US could be catastrophic.

Maybe over time they'd stabilize (assuming the US doesn't invade them). But even best case scenario they'd end up with a GDP closer to Mexico or Canada.

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u/Chadlerk 1d ago

Where would the rest of the US Shipping go out of? Tacoma? This would just pass along the power to Washington. The other ports could in no way handle the volume and the cost of going the long way to Asia.

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u/Nah3794 1d ago

We'd have to take the rest of the states west of the rockies with us or we wouldn't have enough water. Idaho and Utah would make that difficult.

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u/j_calhoun 1d ago

Texas would be left to carry everyone else.

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u/Carparker19 1d ago

Yep this could be a significant step toward secession/breakup of the US.

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u/SmokeySFW 1d ago

Texas would be fine, but yea the bulk of the South collapses.

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u/AfraidComposer7682 1d ago

Don’t forget about Minnesota. We love Canada!

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u/groversnoopyfozzie 1d ago

I understand the desire to see this happen. But at a macro level, that is also what countries like China and Russia want. Should California look for a way around tariffs? Yes. Should that be taken as a sign that we dissolve the union? No.

Keep in mind that there is no actual border control between states, and in the case of secession, there is nothing keeping red state nuts from wreaking havoc in seceded states. If all this takes place in a world where Trump or his ilk is in power, that havoc will be not only be tolerated but discouraged. We will be Balkanized.

Best way forward is to make sure all of the current social and economic pain is properly blamed on Trump and his gang. You aren’t going to change everyone’s mind. Trump came to power because he knew there were enough people that would blindly follow him that the Republican Party would have no choice.

Unfortunately, this will be the most difficult thing to do, but it’s the only path where this country can experience something resembling stability.

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u/StoneGoldX 1d ago

CA seceding triggers civil war. With how much of the defense industry is located in CA, there is no other choice.

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u/Vrse 1d ago

You just know Republicans are salivating at the thought of California leaving. That would give them all the excuse they need to send in the military to murder civilians.

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u/ickleemme89 1d ago

And be adopted by an EU country so we get free healthcare? Finland?

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u/JeanLucPicardAND 1d ago

Right, California could secede

We already fought an entire war over this.

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u/i_am_a_real_boy__ 1d ago

California could secede

No, it couldn't.

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u/Haloslayer I voted 1d ago

Reminder that succession will trigger an immediate Arrest due to White Vs. Texas. If the arrest is not made, then it immediately triggers a civil war. The unfortunate part is you have to HOPE the Military within the State flips to help California instead of destroy it. Not trying to ya know be the Debbie downer but a sudden leaving of the Union comes with problems... Now idk about kicking states out of the union that could be an avenue.

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u/darthjoey91 1d ago

could secede

No they can't. States can't unilaterally leave the Union. I believe it was decided in Sherman v. Atlanta.

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u/PreacherSquat 1d ago

ncr vs legion

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u/Mr_Fuzzo 1d ago

Take Washington too!

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u/earthgreen10 1d ago

is it realistic that California will secede? like is there any merit to this statement? also then won't Californians loose their rights to be a US citizen. while reddit will love that idea, i don't know if all Californians will...

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u/Toolazytolink 1d ago

That's exactly what Russia wants, the US to collapse like the USSR.

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u/Tropicaldaze1950 1d ago

Stuck here in shithole Floriduh.

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u/aknownunknown 1d ago

Everyone needs to watch the film Civil War [2024]

We're living in the prequel

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